A hunting rifle as an accuracy rifle: THLR.no

joe.grey

joe.grey

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
17   0   1
Location
South East Ontario
"THLR.no" has a YouTube channel on which he discusses/demos long range accuracy with a hunting rifle. Yes, a hunting rifle and not a precision rifle with heavy barrel configuration. Now, I fully understand the the concept behind the use of a heavy barrel as I follow the PRS shooting competitions but this guy is getting great accuracy out of his hunting rifle that he often shoots out to 700m.

Yes, his main use is for hunting and he has not yet uploaded a video displaying him sending 20 to 40 consecutive shots down range but my first question is this: how big of a difference would there be in the size of the MOA if say 20 consecutive shots were taken through a hunting rifle on a 6 inch plate out at 700m versus a purpose built precision rifle with a heavy contoured barrel build?

Obviously, weight is a huge factor when comparing hunting rifles vs precision rifles for practical matches such as those seen in the PRS series. And my second question is: I wonder just how bad a hunting rifle would do in a PRS match, would it be outclassed that much?

Thank you for your opinions!
 
I am going to venture a guess most hunting rifles at that are going to open up to twice what a cold bore does. Granted when I tried that it was with a 7 RM. Your mileage may vary.
 
Little to do with weight other than recoil abuse on the shooter, everything to do with the pencil barrel heating up much faster. After 20 shots that barrel is going to be HOT and i doubt it will hold poa/poi the way a heavy barrel will. That being said there is no reason a hunting rifle can't achieve the same precision as a target rifle for the first handful of shots. It comes down to the fact that PR shooters know that in competition they'll have to fire more than that in a tighter time frame and want the rigidity and repetitive nature of a heavier barrel.
 
Barrels, barrels, barrels... there is no difference in mechanical accuracy with better built lighter weight repeater rifles vs heavy barrel repeater actions.

The only difference in how hot that match barrel can get before you see a significant change in accuracy at distance. This is the new paradigm for match barrel manfs that want a piece of the PRS game.

Simple answer, I have test barrels that will maintain sub MOA accuracy out to 900m with a #4 contour till they are too hot to touch.... far more rds then you will likely ever see in a stage. Cold bore is deadly too.

This tech is being tested as fast as possible ... some ideas will move forward, others will die.

What funcky dunky name will the manf give this new "grade" of barrel? who knows. What will this grade cost? who knows but it is coming....

Stay tuned.

Jerry
 
Took a look at some of his videos, I see he's shooting a Blaser R93. That's a high-end rifle, I'm not surprised he's getting great results out of it. Shooting an accurate cartridge like the 6.5x284 with quality reloads, easily doable.

You can't really compare it to something like a 22lb 30" F-class rifle. Different goals, different usage. Heavy barrels have 2 things going for them: Take longer to heat up (more steel) and are stiffer than same length barrels of skinnier contour. If you know how your point of impact shifts as your barrel heats up..... Bull barrels are not the be all and end all. Look at F-TR, they use around standard/heavy palma contours and are right up there in scoring with the F-Open 1.25" straight contour barrels.
 
THLR.no is not about absolute results. He is all about getting out, getting down wherever it takes and making a hit under 30 seconds. He carries light rifles, makes custom scope turrets with range marks and practices at uneven ranges with whatever targets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poN098JFAVo

Nothing like F-class/benchrest gear occultism.
 
I watch THLR and his channel is great for what it is. Thomas doesn't espouse to being an F-Class shooter or benchrest shooter. He is a long range shooter practicing primarily cold-bore shooting (he does do a few strings) with the sole aim of hitting consistently at long distance. Rifles are built differently to give the shooter an edge for the specific sporting/competition conditions that the shooter is competing/participating in. He has set up his rifle to meet his particular needs and I would hardly call his rifle setup light. He places heavy emphasis on his scope and his bipod. He is less concerned with his barrel as it is all about the cold bore shot. If you look at the rules he follows for his long-range proficiency test - it is a single hit. If you want to re-test you need to move to an unknown increased distance and re-shoot no less than I think it is 4 hrs later (You can check out his webpage and the proficiency test is outlined there). I mainly like his channel because his filming style is very relaxing (he hardly ever speaks) and it is all about shooting and less gear focused - something I am finding is becoming more tiresome in NA youtube shooting content.

A hunting rifle would do alright at a PRS but would definitely struggle at any sort of string shooting as the barrel could walk the rounds as it heated up. I know a few guys that tried shooting PRS with a hunting rig to see if they would like it and used it as a gateway into the sport. They typically ended up changing their setups to mirror what the winning competitors were using though.
 
Glock4ever said:
I mainly like his channel because his filming style is very relaxing (he hardly ever speaks) and it is all about shooting and less gear focused - something I am finding is becoming more tiresome in NA youtube shooting.
Click to expand...

I really like watching his channel for that reason. Does anyone know what rifle he shoots now, chambered in I think 6.5 Grendel? But his video do have good info in them and I really like seeing his progress with shooting and hunting. It's pretty awesome!
 
kombayotch said:
PRS now has a Production Division. Have a look at Appendix A - 4 Production Division Approved Equipment List, Authorized Rifle List for the PRS Production Division:

http://www.precisionrifleseries.com...s-Rules-and-Standard-Operating-Procedures.pdf
Click to expand...

I commend any sport for trying to encourage as much participation as possible by making access as easy as possible. Run what your brung is a great set up BUT I see some serious shortcomings in the production division list.

The production rifles fall into rifles that have det mag with "hunting" rd capacities and the generic AICS style of mag. There are varmint rifles and then there are "tactical" factory rifles

Obviously, rifles like the Ruger Precision Rifle push this limit further with adjustable stocks, det mags, oversized bolt knobs, pic rail forends.. all the goodies one might want in a precision rifle.

So I think some clarification of the production division intent should be in order. Otherwise, you may as well call it the Ruger PR div or the Savage tactical or whatever tactical variant rifle div.

I think the Ruger precision rifle should be in the Open division.... PERIOD. Same reason they nixed the Rem tactical chassis from the production div.

Good idea but poor follow through.

Jerry

PS.. I love the Tactical division... 308 and 223 from mag fed rifles... how that for get back to basics. I hope this gets some traction cause there are a zillion more 308 and 223 tactical rifles in the US then metric wonderzappers.
 
blackradon171 said:
I really like watching his channel for that reason. Does anyone know what rifle he shoots now, chambered in I think 6.5 Grendel? But his video do have good info in them and I really like seeing his progress with shooting and hunting. It's pretty awesome!
Click to expand...

Yeah, he had it built on an older Sako I believe it was a Vixen. If you have questions about his gear try sending him a message or leave a comment on his channel, he is really good about responding. I have messaged him a few times about his channel (mainly just encouraging him to keep it up) and he responded very quickly. His proficiency test is a real blast - if you want to see if you can hit at distance under a minute it is very fun.
 
Thank you all for your input, I appreciate it.

A. I own an Accuracy International AT308 and it shoots very accurately when I do my job, I can't complain. Out of the box, it came at 13 lbs. Add scope, rings and bipod and it's a 15-16 lbs shooter without the 10 round loaded mag. Because of my military background, I like the "light and quick" setup. THLR's rifle setup is way lighter than my AI AT308 even if both can be used for hunting but also knowing that the AI AT308 is mainly used for precision. I would like to get a lighter hunting rifle, still very accurate, and take it out shooting in the bush, practicing the 500-800m shots on a 10" plate. I honestly would not know where to begin: 243, 308... I would want a common caliber, available in factory match ammo and in a rifle system that is lightweight and that I could accurately use for no more than 10 shot strings in friendly competitions with friends or simply challenge myself in cold bore mid to long distance single shots. What would you guys suggest?

B. I did send Thomas an email and he did respond to me explaining that his soul purpose is challenging himself to become the most accurate hunter he can be. Cold bore accuracy is his main focus and that's why he relies only on a good hunting rifle. He said he started out with the 243 win. which sounds very interesting to me as it does have better ballistics than the 308 in terms of accuracy. Something to think about for sure.

C. Yes, Sako was his rifle of choice. Expensive hunting rifles in Canada.
 
joe.grey said:
Thank you all for your input, I appreciate it.

A. I own an Accuracy International AT308 and it shoots very accurately when I do my job, I can't complain. Out of the box, it came at 13 lbs. Add scope, rings and bipod and it's a 15-16 lbs shooter without the 10 round loaded mag. Because of my military background, I like the "light and quick" setup. THLR's rifle setup is way lighter than my AI AT308 even if both can be used for hunting but also knowing that the AI AT308 is mainly used for precision. I would like to get a lighter hunting rifle, still very accurate, and take it out shooting in the bush, practicing the 500-800m shots on a 10" plate. I honestly would not know where to begin: 243, 308... I would want a common caliber, available in factory match ammo and in a rifle system that is lightweight and that I could accurately use for no more than 10 shot strings in friendly competitions with friends or simply challenge myself in cold bore mid to long distance single shots. What would you guys suggest?

B. I did send Thomas an email and he did respond to me explaining that his soul purpose is challenging himself to become the most accurate hunter he can be. Cold bore accuracy is his main focus and that's why he relies only on a good hunting rifle. He said he started out with the 243 win. which sounds very interesting to me as it does have better ballistics than the 308 in terms of accuracy. Something to think about for sure.

C. Yes, Sako was his rifle of choice. Expensive hunting rifles in Canada.
Click to expand...

If you are looking for a lightweight rifle to have fun that is not primarily focused on hunting (i.e. big game like moose) I would recommend that you get a 6mm like a 243 Win or a 6.5mm either a 260 Rem/6.5 Creedmoor/6.5x55 because ballistically they are very flat shooting and won't heat up your barrel super quickly. If you are stuck on factory match ammo and can't/refuse to reload than I would say either a .223/.308 would be your best bet. You won't pay through the nose for match ammo and it is readily available in match loadings. The 6/6.5mm stuff isn't readily available and can be at times very difficult to get. A good rifle to look at for 6.5 is either the Ruger Precision rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor - it is a bit on the heavier side (10 lbs) or the Tikka Varmint in 6.5x55 (8 lbs). If you absolutely want a light rifle than just get a Tikka T3 lite as they are ridiculously light and very good shooters out of the box. I do think you aren't being specific enough in para 1 to get good recommendations as Thomas' rifle setup isn't that lightweight. His scope is easily 2lbs and he always has a bipod on it which can easily push the weight of his total system over 10 lbs. You haven't specified a total weight and what kind of magnification and accessories you are looking for. You can build a sub 10 lb rifle with optics very easily but as you shave weight there will always be trade offs.
 
Mystic Precision said:
I commend any sport for trying to encourage as much participation as possible by making access as easy as possible. Run what your brung is a great set up BUT I see some serious shortcomings in the production division list.

The production rifles fall into rifles that have det mag with "hunting" rd capacities and the generic AICS style of mag. There are varmint rifles and then there are "tactical" factory rifles

Obviously, rifles like the Ruger Precision Rifle push this limit further with adjustable stocks, det mags, oversized bolt knobs, pic rail forends.. all the goodies one might want in a precision rifle.

So I think some clarification of the production division intent should be in order. Otherwise, you may as well call it the Ruger PR div or the Savage tactical or whatever tactical variant rifle div.

I think the Ruger precision rifle should be in the Open division.... PERIOD. Same reason they nixed the Rem tactical chassis from the production div.

Good idea but poor follow through.

Jerry
Click to expand...

The intent is quite clear in the first sentences:

It is a compilation of rifles that meet the $2,000 threshold required in the Production Division.

They nixed the Rem tactical chassis from the production div. because it has an MRSP above $2000. Nothing else. Shows it right on Remington's page. It has nothing to do with features. It sets a financial limit, and if manufacturers can offer a rifle with the right features under that limit, it's a good thing. Hopefully, it encourages more manufacturers to do so. Ruger precision rifle should be allowed exactly for that reason. They offered an accurate rifle with the right features and they made it AFFORDABLE.

It's about removing the financial barriers to entry. It's about about making it so that new people don't need to buy a $5000 custom rifle or a high end factory rifle (AI, PGW, etc...) to compete. Other disciplines should learn from them, they got it right! Making it feature based would be the wrong way to do it.
 
Last edited:
Alpheus said:
Took a look at some of his videos, I see he's shooting a Blaser R93. That's a high-end rifle, I'm not surprised he's getting great results out of it. Shooting an accurate cartridge like the 6.5x284 with quality reloads, easily doable.

You can't really compare it to something like a 22lb 30" F-class rifle. Different goals, different usage. Heavy barrels have 2 things going for them: Take longer to heat up (more steel) and are stiffer than same length barrels of skinnier contour. If you know how your point of impact shifts as your barrel heats up..... Bull barrels are not the be all and end all. Look at F-TR, they use around standard/heavy palma contours and are right up there in scoring with the F-Open 1.25" straight contour barrels.
Click to expand...

My R93 with my .308 barrel is extremely accurate. I have no yet shot a rifle with a better barrel. Including all the heavies out there. It's an amazing rifle, and to try to duplicate it with your standard 700 is a hope and a prayer type chance. My range is 450 and I'm in a 3 inch group with a 3-9. The .257 Bee barrel is even better. Blaser makes up for lack of barrel thickness by using extremely hard, stiff high end steel. The gun is amazing and made for this kind of use. I was just quoted 2300 for a new barrel in .375 H+H.....
 
In May I attended a 1000m benchrest match in Osoyoos, BC. They had an "open" class and also a "hunting" class, and I have to say I was pretty impressed with how well most of those hunting rifles were shooting at 1000m. Here is a thread that includes a screenshot of the winning 1000m three-shot group.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1226970-2015-osoyoos-1000m-shoot

I am of the opinion that "best" or "winning" scores or groups are interesting, impressive, and largely useless/meaningless in the scheme of things. So I will report that most of the hunting rifles there (and most of them were Tikka 7mm Rem Mags) seemed to be able to shoot three-shot groups at 1000m of 15" or better, which to this target shooter is darn impressive.
 
I didn't watch the video but Steyr rifles whether be the SSG or the ProHunter and other hunting rifles use identical action. All of their barrels regardless of barrel profiles are all cold hammer forged.
 
kombayotch said:
The intent is quite clear in the first sentences:

It is a compilation of rifles that meet the $2,000 threshold required in the Production Division.

They nixed the Rem tactical chassis from the production div. because it has an MRSP above $2000. Nothing else. Shows it right on Remington's page. It has nothing to do with features. It sets a financial limit, and if manufacturers can offer a rifle with the right features under that limit, it's a good thing. Hopefully, it encourages more manufacturers to do so. Ruger precision rifle should be allowed exactly for that reason. They offered an accurate rifle with the right features and they made it AFFORDABLE.

It's about removing the financial barriers to entry. It's about about making it so that new people don't need to buy a $5000 custom rifle or a high end factory rifle (AI, PGW, etc...) to compete. Other disciplines should learn from them, they got it right! Making it feature based would be the wrong way to do it.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, with the points I have indicated and the points you have indicated, production class in PRS is a dead duck. Even if a range of manf start bumping out wannabe tactical rifles, with an open cap of $1999 MSRP, this pushes the cost of entry way beyond affordable.

I was mucking about with a project, and given RETAIL US pricing for US buyers and a little support from the manf, a totally useable PRS rig can be put together for around $800 US. As a factory rifle, more bling could be added for the same money.

Why would there need to be a cap of $2000 US MSRP if this was to be a budget class? I would think $1000 US MSRP as a more exciting number to both get manf to make a sizeable premium and for the average joe to see this number as realistic.

Plastic fantastics rule the hunting world now for less then $400 US MSRP... why?

Anything approaching $2k is into custom rifle territory for the US buyer. This is NOT a class for entry level budgets.
Jerry
 
Affordable does not mean budget. People should be able to walk into any gunshop and buy a common factory rifle to compete with. Many decent starter level rifles appropriate for PRS are $1000-$1400. There really isn't much close to $2000, but $2000 cuts out the highend factory guns and leaves room for price increase.
 
mebiuspower said:
... but Steyr rifles whether be the SSG or the ProHunter and other hunting rifles use identical action.
Click to expand...

Not to hijack the thread but I have to disagree somewhat here ...

The Steyr Mannlicher SSG 69 action is definitely different from the ProHunter action :

- The SSG 69 action has a longer than usual receiver ring to accomodate the barrel shank to receiver fit : the SSG PI and PII barrels are "press fit" (some heating involved here) for 57mm in the receiver (no threads).
- The SSG 69 action has rear locking lugs.
- The SSG 69 action also has integral 20 MOA grooves or rails milled on top of the receiver to accomodate Steyr Mannlicher scope mount rings - except for the SSG 69 MATCH, which has rails with 0 MOA.
- No SBS on the SSG 69 action.

BTW, congratulations for your soon to come Steyr Mannlicher SSG 08 rifle. Some rifle, to be sure !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom