A little confused.....- Shells getting jammed- Trued action issue?????

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duncansuds

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So, I am relatively new to reloading, but have had good success in other calibers I have tried so far, I am reloading some shells for a friend, the rifle is a 700 7mm RUM with an aftermarket barrel, the action has been at least lug lapped (I believe a full trued job) and shoots factory ammo alright. The issue is, I have been having shells that are hard to get to chamber, they get a little stiff before the bolt closes, I am FL resizing and seating depth is not on the lands. The same shell can be difficult to go in once and then go in like nothing on the next try. When I do get them in, they can be a chore getting them out, I will use a rubber handled screw driver to tap the bolt back, some times a very light tap with a cleaning rod to get the brass out. The issues seem to point to either the brass being too long or maybe shoulder or neck being out of spec. this will happen with a bullet and with out a bullet in the brass, same feeling......

The confusing thing is I have tried many different settings on my FL die, they are all within spec when measured with calipers, then neck is actually a little under, the case length is under max, but still trimmed down to trim length after sizing. We have shot some shells out of it with it being stiff, there are no pressure signs after firing that were any different then the factory ammo he was using (very minor primer swelling) they are also quite accurate (between .75-1" at 200 yards), I am not sure what I am over looking.....

Is it possible that the trued action has such tight tolerances that I am getting issues due to it?? Its the first trued action I have reloaded for and am a little lost in what I am doing wrong, I have set the dies up repeatedly thinking that I must have not put enough over-cam on it, I have trimmed to slightly below spec (.001) to try to account for a very tight chamber, measured and re-measured, and the brass that I get the feed into the rifle with a nice smooth feel to it, still get slightly stuck/hard to pull back the bolt after firing with virtually no pressure signs to the case.... what am I missing???
 
If it chambers the reloaded round easily and is difficult to extract after firing that is a high pressure sign. When you seat your bullets are you crimping? When seating scew the die in until it touches the case then back it off a half turn, there is no need to crimp, very slight flaring at the shoulder junction could cause this. Try new brass. Tight chamber has nothing to do with the trued action, it is the chamber in the barrel that is tight or he could have undercut the chamber slightly and when torqued to receiver resulted in short chamber.
 
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I am not using any crimp at all. So in saying that its a short chamber, can I adjust for that??, I am not really sure what you mean. I don't have any new brass to work with at this time....
 
The brass you are reloading ,was it shot out of the same rifle? or used aquired ? .Sometimes brass out of one rifle will not fit another chamber unless it is small base sized first .Only other thing I can think of is the seating die is set too low and are making a slight bulge in the shoulder area and just has to be set a ting higher .
 
duncansuds said:
I am not using any crimp at all. So in saying that its a short chamber, can I adjust for that??, I am not really sure what you mean. I don't have any new brass to work with at this time....
Click to expand...

If it were a short chamber, likely you wouldn't be able to even feed the cartridge in enough to close the bolt easily.

It sounds like you have a match chamber or a chamber cut with a minimum spec reamer. This will usually require a set of small base dies.

SB has some good points but a few thou of crush when tightening the barrel, shouldn't make that much difference.

The ultra mag cases work harden very quickly, as do other magnum cases. Nothing serious but if your cases have work hardened, they will not swage to spec when you run them through your sizing die. As your action has been trued, you should be able to full length resize without accuracy loss.

Might be time to anneal your cases.
 
When you FL size the cases, run the ram all the way to the top. Check and see if you can see daylight between the shell plate and the die. If so, adjust the die so that the shell plate makes contact with the die. Sometimes that tiny shoulder bump is all it takes to chamber the case cleanly esp on a tight chamber.
 
If a reloaded shell goes in but is hard to extract without firing, it can be a long bullet being gripped by the rifling. If it isn't the bullet then it is most likely the rear of the brass is too large... not sized down because of a previous firing at excessive pressures excessively expanded the brass.

Before seating a primer and adding powder and a bullet, you need to fully size brass and try just the brass in the chamber until you sort that out.
 
My brother had the same problems with a 300WM I chambered for him. I tested it so I knew it was good. He was using old brass (FL Resized) that had been fired in a sloppy savage, he went to new brass and the issue went away. If it is the shoulder hitting you may have to carefully file a thou or 2 off your shell holder and bump the shoulder back slightly.
 
full lenght dies of different brands dont have same mesurements
and match chambers are usualy more thight

I have seen that problem twice
my friend's 308 will not chamber brass resied in FL Forster die

and my rem 300wm will not chamber brass resized in the Forster FL die

why? because the back of the chamber has a smaller diameter than the die so when the sholder hit the sholder of the die, base expands and will not chamber

in both cases, a redding body die solves the problem

so if you wand to know if you face the same problem, mesure the base of a brass that chambers free, mesure again after firing and again after FL resize

if the brass alone chambers free but dont chamber anymore once bullet is seated and you are absolutely sure that the bullet dont touch the lands, you might have a thight neck.

then you need to turn the necks of your brass

to take accurate mesures, it is better to use a 0.0001 micrometer
 
The base (web) of a cartridge does not expand from a full length sizing die. A press can not exert the force required. It takes an overload to cause the web to expand and it will be very hard to extract.
 
Sounds like this is a case of being a match chamber and needs some neck turning, i trim my cases .015" shorter then spec to give room to grow, new brass can be tight to close, after a few uses it gets better with resizing it goes .018 thick around neck down to .013"
 
When difficult to seat as you mention -- another thing to check is that the expander ball on your die maybe pulling the case forward (stretching it again) after resizing. Case necks that are too thick can cause this as can a poorly machined expander ball which drags inside the case mouth. The result is that either the shoulder and/or oal case length is to long for your chamber.
What kind of dies are you using (or did you mention this already and I missed it)
 
I've seen a similar situation on a 300 why. The customer was using RCBS dies and a lee shell holder. I suggested he try the rcbs shell holder and the problem went away. The Lee shell holder was not allowing the case to go far enough into the die.
Try the simplest solution first.
 
guntech said:
If a reloaded shell goes in but is hard to extract without firing, it can be a long bullet being gripped by the rifling. If it isn't the bullet then it is most likely the rear of the brass is too large... not sized down because of a previous firing at excessive pressures excessively expanded the brass.

Before seating a primer and adding powder and a bullet, you need to fully size brass and try just the brass in the chamber until you sort that out.
Click to expand...

That's what I have been doing, I am trying the brass in the rifle after full length sizing and again after trimming (before any primer/powder/bullet is added. I am wondering now if the small amount of overpressure seen (swollen primer) can be part of the issue, maybe causing expansion near the bases. I have looked and measured very carefully and have noticed some small extractor marks on the bases of the ones that have been stubborn to remove. I am using all Remington Siracco brass. Most were fired from the rifle before the chamber/barrel work as I have now confirmed with the owner.

The owner is brining me three unfired factory load he was using so I can fire baseline shells to measure from, and an unfired shell the check against all measurements I have now.

I am using RCBS dies, RCBS shell holder on a Lee 50th single press. Using the Unique lube in it seems to run the smoothest.
 
You can try coloring a loaded round with a permanent marker or smoking it with a candle. Chamber it and check or unusual marks on the brass or bullet might give you an idea what's wrong. Post a picture of what you find.
 
duncansuds said:
That's what I have been doing, I am trying the brass in the rifle after full length sizing and again after trimming (before any primer/powder/bullet is added. I am wondering now if the small amount of overpressure seen (swollen primer) can be part of the issue, maybe causing expansion near the bases. I have looked and measured very carefully and have noticed some small extractor marks on the bases of the ones that have been stubborn to remove. I am using all Remington Siracco brass. Most were fired from the rifle before the chamber/barrel work as I have now confirmed with the owner.

The owner is brining me three unfired factory load he was using so I can fire baseline shells to measure from, and an unfired shell the check against all measurements I have now.

I am using RCBS dies, RCBS shell holder on a Lee 50th single press. Using the Unique lube in it seems to run the smoothest.
Click to expand...

You don't need to measure anything... if your previously fired and sized brass chambers hard and is hard to extract after you try and chamber it, the rear of the case is too large. The case is no longer any good. It was probably damaged by overloads. If your previously fired and sized brass chambers hard and is easy to extract after you try and chamber it... the shoulder of the case needs to be pushed back slightly. If the bolt is hard to open after you have fired a cartridge, pressures were excessive.

Often loading presses spring a bit when sizing cases and do not size to spec but cases that were overloaded often can not be sized back to spec.
 
Try new brass and or slightly lighter loads also polish the inside of your chamber with extra fine emery cloth to remove any possible burrs-just wrap a piece around a dowel slightly smaller than the chamber and take your time this should fix your problem,,a slight bur in the chamber can ruin your whole day
 
duncansuds said:
So, I am relatively new to reloading, but have had good success in other calibers I have tried so far, I am reloading some shells for a friend, the rifle is a 700 7mm RUM with an aftermarket barrel, the action has been at least lug lapped (I believe a full trued job) and shoots factory ammo alright. The issue is, I have been having shells that are hard to get to chamber, they get a little stiff before the bolt closes, I am FL resizing and seating depth is not on the lands. The same shell can be difficult to go in once and then go in like nothing on the next try. When I do get them in, they can be a chore getting them out, I will use a rubber handled screw driver to tap the bolt back, some times a very light tap with a cleaning rod to get the brass out. The issues seem to point to either the brass being too long or maybe shoulder or neck being out of spec. this will happen with a bullet and with out a bullet in the brass, same feeling......

The confusing thing is I have tried many different settings on my FL die, they are all within spec when measured with calipers, then neck is actually a little under, the case length is under max, but still trimmed down to trim length after sizing. We have shot some shells out of it with it being stiff, there are no pressure signs after firing that were any different then the factory ammo he was using (very minor primer swelling) they are also quite accurate (between .75-1" at 200 yards), I am not sure what I am over looking.....

Is it possible that the trued action has such tight tolerances that I am getting issues due to it?? Its the first trued action I have reloaded for and am a little lost in what I am doing wrong, I have set the dies up repeatedly thinking that I must have not put enough over-cam on it, I have trimmed to slightly below spec (.001) to try to account for a very tight chamber, measured and re-measured, and the brass that I get the feed into the rifle with a nice smooth feel to it, still get slightly stuck/hard to pull back the bolt after firing with virtually no pressure signs to the case.... what am I missing???
Click to expand...

There is plenty of good advice already so I am focusing on this line in your OP. You say that a fired case can be tough to chamber sometimes but easy another.

If so, try this test. take a fired case and put a line the full length with a jiffy marker. chamber but don't force the bolt shut. If stiff, extract, rotate a 20deg, rechamber. Repeat until it goes in

If the case WILL chamber properly at one point in its rotation, you have a problem with the alignment of the chamber and bolt face which is causing your cases to be banana.

You can also do a visual inspection on your fired cases to see if they will sit square on a mirror.

If this is the problem, they will have a tilt.

If this is the problem, have the action properly trued and barrel properly fitted.

Jerry
 
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