Acceptable Precision
- Thread starter Longbow
- Start date
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
In the '3's' at 1000yds - FTR
Jerry
for clarity.... that is 0.3 to 0.4 MOA
Jerry
for clarity.... that is 0.3 to 0.4 MOA
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In F Class the V bull is 5 inches at 900 meters. If two competitors shoot a perfect score then they count the number of v bull hits to determine the winner. It is nice to have a rifle that is capable of hitting the V bull.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
US 1000yd relays can be unlimited sighters with 20rds for score. Not uncommon for shooters to rack up 25 to 30rds total. Must be fired within 45mins. I scored one US shooter who ended his relay with 39rds fired. We were in Arizona....
And yes, the last shot better be capable of hitting the X ring (Cdn is V bull).
So properly set up FTR rifles will hold in the 3's over the length of the relay - and ambient conditions - 1 day match can run from 51rds to 60+unlimited sighters. Various formats so rd count per day will vary. Provincial matches tend to have a really goofy rds count due to all the various matches shot per day.
We stress test our gear aggressively... if you want a chance at the podium
Jerry
And yes, the last shot better be capable of hitting the X ring (Cdn is V bull).
So properly set up FTR rifles will hold in the 3's over the length of the relay - and ambient conditions - 1 day match can run from 51rds to 60+unlimited sighters. Various formats so rd count per day will vary. Provincial matches tend to have a really goofy rds count due to all the various matches shot per day.
We stress test our gear aggressively... if you want a chance at the podium
Jerry
Interesting. Yes the Provincial piece is odd. I will have to watch closer next year but it was not my impression that I was seeing a bunch of 3s this summer despite there being some very high caliber shooters at our APM. Having said that it would be much easier with E-targets to see that in the single string US format than the pair or three person firing relays that we do out here.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Just because a machine can hold a level of accuracy... doesn't mean the driver can, especially when windy.
Now gear ranges in all levels of quality, tuning and performance. Not every shoot wants to tune and maintain to the peak level. So you have to decide if podium is important or if you just want to play along.
I know that the systems run by those at the top of this game, do shoot very tight groups...
And there was a slight pick up in mirage speed but decided to keep my hold and just see where the bullets landed. This is 250yds.
FYI, I refine my tune at 1000yds cause little changes can have big affects at this level of competition.
Jerry
PS as you have observed, US string fire vs pairs/triples are two completely different games sharing the same name and format. When you are "on" with string fire, fast puller/E targets, you can hammer the center and get some crazy high scores.
Waiting 44secsX2 (plus time for whenever the puller feels they should do their job) until it is your turn to shoot on a switchy day at Connaught can age any shooter... and when you are "out", the relay can't end fast enough.
You still got to figure out the wind and THAT is the point of the game.
Now gear ranges in all levels of quality, tuning and performance. Not every shoot wants to tune and maintain to the peak level. So you have to decide if podium is important or if you just want to play along.
I know that the systems run by those at the top of this game, do shoot very tight groups...
And there was a slight pick up in mirage speed but decided to keep my hold and just see where the bullets landed. This is 250yds.
FYI, I refine my tune at 1000yds cause little changes can have big affects at this level of competition.
Jerry
PS as you have observed, US string fire vs pairs/triples are two completely different games sharing the same name and format. When you are "on" with string fire, fast puller/E targets, you can hammer the center and get some crazy high scores.
Waiting 44secsX2 (plus time for whenever the puller feels they should do their job) until it is your turn to shoot on a switchy day at Connaught can age any shooter... and when you are "out", the relay can't end fast enough.
You still got to figure out the wind and THAT is the point of the game.
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I certainly get the notion of conditions and their effect, both positive and negative. Have shot both internationaly and at Connaught enough throughout the years to see the effects on Aggs even for top shooters. Will admit to be a duffer at FTR, only really messed with it last year but in my main disciplines DCRA style PR and PRS I am much more interested in practical accuracy vs theoritical precision. This is really driven home in so called one shot COFs in PR that we have introduced with no sighters and to a degree PRS. I want to understand what the "system" IE me and the rifle can do in 90% of conditions which in turn drives my strategy to various COF. It is my observation that in Canadian F Class after sighters it is a game of reading changes in wind/condition, in the US often a game of waiting for your condition. In PRS it is initial wind call, but really then spotting your hits and misses/reading plate. My rifle is a honest .5-.6 rifle over 20 shots, get it that I may not have enough accuracy to win at Connaught but very curious how I can do in NS/NB
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The above pic is from last years F open Provincials, 900m, low to moderate switching winds, 3 guys on the Shotmarker target.
7 points total dropped betwee 3 guys, after sighters, in 45 shots. 22 Vs out of 45 shots. This is the level of accuracy needed to get to the medals in any of the matches here. If your gun can’t shoot close to clean for a 15 shot relay, on a calm day, then you are just there for the fun, not the medals.
7 points total dropped betwee 3 guys, after sighters, in 45 shots. 22 Vs out of 45 shots. This is the level of accuracy needed to get to the medals in any of the matches here. If your gun can’t shoot close to clean for a 15 shot relay, on a calm day, then you are just there for the fun, not the medals.
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And jerry is 100% correct, pair or 3 guys rotating on a target, is a much harder game then individual string fire. Its not even close to the same and is a bit hard to even compare the scores between the 2 different styles. You only have 45 sec to shoot when it’s your turn, so no waiting out conditions here. You take your best guess on the wind, make your adjustment or hold off, and let it rip.
It is harder here but also just as much or more fun, in that all the shooters are in it together, and it really makes you focus on the wind and changes constantly.
For anyone who is even kinda thinking they might want to try it, F-Open or FTR, be warned, once you come to that first match, there’s no going back! I’ve competed now for 3 seasons, easily the most fun I’ve ever had with a rifle, and almost every single person at every match at every range I’ve been to in Western Canada, will honestly give you the shirt off their back, or a perfect stranger their spare gun mid match, to help new guys coming out. Guys love to help the new people at matches with gear and advice and recommendations.
There’s a reason the sport is growing like wildfire.
It is harder here but also just as much or more fun, in that all the shooters are in it together, and it really makes you focus on the wind and changes constantly.
For anyone who is even kinda thinking they might want to try it, F-Open or FTR, be warned, once you come to that first match, there’s no going back! I’ve competed now for 3 seasons, easily the most fun I’ve ever had with a rifle, and almost every single person at every match at every range I’ve been to in Western Canada, will honestly give you the shirt off their back, or a perfect stranger their spare gun mid match, to help new guys coming out. Guys love to help the new people at matches with gear and advice and recommendations.
There’s a reason the sport is growing like wildfire.
Above target is my final load test before heading to a match. 300m-.19 MOA. My match load.
This is not an outlier or unusual for lots of the top guys match guns and loads. This is what’s needed out of your gear to have a rig capable of winning matches. But is only part of the equation. Wind reading is equally as important and lots of matches are won in the reloading room I feel as well. Your ammo needs to be dialed in to this level, and then your need 140 rounds of ammo with almost no deviations in velocity, ES, or SD.
F Class tests every bit of accuracy from gun handling to reloading to environmental. Nothing is more fun or more satisfying imo. No one wins out of the box, you need practical match experience and it’s a learning curve but super fun.
My last observation is my accuracy and precision had hit a peak, shooting steel and targets and range days, but once I started going to matches, my capability rose to whole new levels. Everybody who comes, sees the same improvements.
This is not an outlier or unusual for lots of the top guys match guns and loads. This is what’s needed out of your gear to have a rig capable of winning matches. But is only part of the equation. Wind reading is equally as important and lots of matches are won in the reloading room I feel as well. Your ammo needs to be dialed in to this level, and then your need 140 rounds of ammo with almost no deviations in velocity, ES, or SD.
F Class tests every bit of accuracy from gun handling to reloading to environmental. Nothing is more fun or more satisfying imo. No one wins out of the box, you need practical match experience and it’s a learning curve but super fun.
My last observation is my accuracy and precision had hit a peak, shooting steel and targets and range days, but once I started going to matches, my capability rose to whole new levels. Everybody who comes, sees the same improvements.
Great shooting to be sure. Interesting, do you guys not use the pair or triple shooter option for recording score, or is this how it comes out when you retrieve the saved file? I assume you are shooting 2 and 15 with convertable sighters?
I too believe in competition as the fastest way to improve ones skills, I do think we have to be careful though(not meant for you) in the "What do the Pros do mindset" when we talk to new shooters, hence my title of the post Acceptable Precision.
See you at the range
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For the scoring at matches, at most of the ranges we still use paper-score cards and the Shotmarker simply shows the hits and locations. Works very well. Some of the ranges are now instituting a paperless scoring system, where the Shotmarker records and tally’s each persons score. Both ways have their pros and cons. Enjoy both ways and it is really much simpler in application then it may seem to outsiders.
As for the Pros Mindset, this to me is the best part about F class. You can come as a rookie, and have an amazing weekend at a match no matter how you score, but you also get to see what you need to build on to get better. Plus the great atmosphere at matches allows people to soak up mountains of information and see what works and what doesn’t, for yourself.
As for the Pros Mindset, this to me is the best part about F class. You can come as a rookie, and have an amazing weekend at a match no matter how you score, but you also get to see what you need to build on to get better. Plus the great atmosphere at matches allows people to soak up mountains of information and see what works and what doesn’t, for yourself.
There are several guys in my shooting group here who’ve all bought SM, and it is the single greatest training tool going for sure! And nice to have Adam there to see all the tricks and secrets of them too, jealous. We learn a little bit more about expanding our uses of the SM every season, it I’m sure there are lots of things it can do, we haven’t touched on yet.
I’m not sure what the ‘’triple firing mode’ is, will have to look into that.
I’m not sure what the ‘’triple firing mode’ is, will have to look into that.
