Action for 338LM
- Thread starter Ian Robertson
- Start date
- Location
- calgary alberta
Yes there is interst I am finishing 2 338 Lapuas right now, based on Nesika actions. 1 is standard configuration other is right bolt left port. Both are big budget rifles.
My question would be, Is it Canadian made? Will it rival many of the US based aftermarket actions in tight tolerances, and finish?
Personally I would want to see something that is Canadian made that would rival the Farley's, Bat, Borden, Nesika etc. It would be nice to see an action where the price is say 1000.00 Cdn and not 1000.00 US. I am talking something that could be used in short range BR and win.
Calvin
Personally I would want to see something that is Canadian made that would rival the Farley's, Bat, Borden, Nesika etc. It would be nice to see an action where the price is say 1000.00 Cdn and not 1000.00 US. I am talking something that could be used in short range BR and win.
Calvin
- Location
- calgary alberta
There already are some Canadian made actions to rival those made in the US, PGW makes actions and so do I , albeit for 50s only at this time, but they cost just as much time and material to make here as down south , hence the prices are comparable, and over the $1000.00 mark.
Now if you would settle for a good chinese knockoff that may be cheaper
Now if you would settle for a good chinese knockoff that may be cheaper
Rick, that is good to know that you make some actions as well as those of PGW. Like you said, yours are mainly for the big guns. PGW is pretty much tied up with there work and it is based on a fairly big gun. I really feel it would be nice to have a action of shortrange BR quality.
Yes, BR is basically dead in Canada but look at how many actions are imported every year. I am not a machinist or have any idea of the work that goes into the manufacture of a premium action but why would one want to spend big dollars on something that I feel may not be proven out there?
I may upset a few people with this comment but my idea of precision is shortrange BR. Tactical rifles as precision guns do not sit with me. They are 2 different forms of precision and the equipment is different. The only thing that is the same is that they are both guns. A BR action is not meant to be rolled around in the sand. It more than likely would not function after the first bit of dirt entered the bolt rails.
Maybe someone out there could shed more light on this. If I were to buy a PGW action and have a 6PPC built on it would it be competitive out there and win? Yes there are other components that are required but will it fit as part of the puzzle.
Calvin
Yes, BR is basically dead in Canada but look at how many actions are imported every year. I am not a machinist or have any idea of the work that goes into the manufacture of a premium action but why would one want to spend big dollars on something that I feel may not be proven out there?
I may upset a few people with this comment but my idea of precision is shortrange BR. Tactical rifles as precision guns do not sit with me. They are 2 different forms of precision and the equipment is different. The only thing that is the same is that they are both guns. A BR action is not meant to be rolled around in the sand. It more than likely would not function after the first bit of dirt entered the bolt rails.
Maybe someone out there could shed more light on this. If I were to buy a PGW action and have a 6PPC built on it would it be competitive out there and win? Yes there are other components that are required but will it fit as part of the puzzle.
Calvin
- Location
- calgary alberta
Calvin I think that the machinists here are every bit as good as any in the world.
To make a BR action is not much different than any other action, just the tolerances are far tighter. The biggest reasons you don't see many Canadain made actions in any form are lack of sales, if you don't make a fair number of something, the cost is high, AND despite there being some truly great Canadian made products, for some reason the population here still leans towards well known US makers. I believe most of this is due to media hype.
Everyone knows it was a Canadian who made the long 50 cal shot in Afghanistan, everyone knows it was a Lilja barrel on the rifle, but who made the rifle??
The US media failed to mention the rifle maker somehow. And Canadian media for the most part is anti gun, so you don't hear much anyway.
Barrels are a classic example, I would put a Ron Smith barrel head to head with the well known and highly publicized Krieger, for quality and accuracy, yet I still get many clients ordering Kriegers, Same with Gaillard vesus Lilja.
Both are accurate barrels, 1 however is a (gun culture) household name anywhere you go the other is a "who?" There are a plethora of others we could compare but I think you get the idea.
I know my 50s shoot far more accurately than Steyrs and Armalites, but outside southern Alberta who has heard of me? Hence rather than buying a rifle from me, an unknown, guys buy the Steyrs and such.
Please understand I am not whining , this is the plight of the small makers of most unknown stuff everywhere
To make a BR action is not much different than any other action, just the tolerances are far tighter. The biggest reasons you don't see many Canadain made actions in any form are lack of sales, if you don't make a fair number of something, the cost is high, AND despite there being some truly great Canadian made products, for some reason the population here still leans towards well known US makers. I believe most of this is due to media hype.
Everyone knows it was a Canadian who made the long 50 cal shot in Afghanistan, everyone knows it was a Lilja barrel on the rifle, but who made the rifle??
The US media failed to mention the rifle maker somehow. And Canadian media for the most part is anti gun, so you don't hear much anyway.
Barrels are a classic example, I would put a Ron Smith barrel head to head with the well known and highly publicized Krieger, for quality and accuracy, yet I still get many clients ordering Kriegers, Same with Gaillard vesus Lilja.
Both are accurate barrels, 1 however is a (gun culture) household name anywhere you go the other is a "who?" There are a plethora of others we could compare but I think you get the idea.
I know my 50s shoot far more accurately than Steyrs and Armalites, but outside southern Alberta who has heard of me? Hence rather than buying a rifle from me, an unknown, guys buy the Steyrs and such.
Please understand I am not whining , this is the plight of the small makers of most unknown stuff everywhere
Rick, thanks for responding. I appreciate your comments. I guess the only other sad part about this is that it shows once again that Canadians cannot stand on there own 2 feet when it comes to guns. We always tend to have to turn across the line for something we can have at home if we would shop at home.
Look at all the threads about can I bring this or that into Canada. Is it legal? If we would all band together and stay at home we could be self sufficient. There could possibly be more people taking the plunge into manufacturing. I personally would be willing to test someones product if they asked me.
In regards to your comment about our machinists in Canada I do believe that they are just as good as any other. Just that it would be nicer to see more out there. You guys will not grace this earth forever. We all move on. Sooner or later there will be no one to carry the torch at the rate things are going. This is something that scares me as I hope to be able to shoot at least 35 more years.
Calvin
Look at all the threads about can I bring this or that into Canada. Is it legal? If we would all band together and stay at home we could be self sufficient. There could possibly be more people taking the plunge into manufacturing. I personally would be willing to test someones product if they asked me.
In regards to your comment about our machinists in Canada I do believe that they are just as good as any other. Just that it would be nicer to see more out there. You guys will not grace this earth forever. We all move on. Sooner or later there will be no one to carry the torch at the rate things are going. This is something that scares me as I hope to be able to shoot at least 35 more years.
Calvin
- Location
- calgary alberta
Calvin Canadian population, or lack of it, also plays a large part of the problem. Canada has more guns per capita than the US , but the state of California I believe has more people than all of Canada combined, so with the Canadian gun culture representing roughly 10% of our population, it is a small pond to be fishing in, in terms of gross sales. This was reflected well by the comments of Remingtons boss, something to the effect of Canada representing about 4% of Remingtons sales.
Take heart though I am not getting younger but have hired a younger fellow to learn my art, maybe in a few years we will have another option
Take heart though I am not getting younger but have hired a younger fellow to learn my art, maybe in a few years we will have another option
Canadians make good stuff regardless of what Canadians in general think. We battle that all the time. The actions I am talking about are Barnard, made in NZ, very high quality, very well proven, with a trigger for 1200. They are not Rem copies. There are other parts of the world that make good stuff besides the US, and us.
J
JoeP's old business account
Guest
Calvin,
PGW has produced a custom BR actions that would be comparable and competitive with some of the USA actions. Rick Pollock has a nice single shot action and Steve @ PGW would be best to fill you in on the details.
Purchasing USA actions now is still reasonable. When the exchange rate was 1.55x it was painful!
There is a misconception on BR actions verses tactical for sure! The application and style of shooting are important in the design. No doubt perfect machining and tight tolerances are required and those who are not competitive or those who have not studied the sport do not fully understand this and this isn't always a big issue if the shooter does some research themselves.
As you know, you only have a limited time to drill 5 score shots down range and you want to make sure you do not upset the rifle in the process. The ability to drive 5 shots in a short time 10 secs or less is very important in be consistently successful in scoring small groups, and more so at 200 yds then 100yds...pending conditions.
You'll also notice design enhancements in the firing pin assemblies/systems. One fairly new action producer is now producing his own actions one of the reasons being a difference in opinion between himself and another manufacturer over the ignition system. Its good efforts like this that really drive the development of improving action designs. These differences are not easily recognized and often overlooked.
Now do they yield the results down range, well that remains to be seen. I'm told, jackets are the present stumbling block.......as opposed to action design.
I know you follow BRCentral fairly closely and sometimes these items are discussed, but usually is the personal phone call to the parties involved that reveals the inside track
PGW has produced a custom BR actions that would be comparable and competitive with some of the USA actions. Rick Pollock has a nice single shot action and Steve @ PGW would be best to fill you in on the details.
Purchasing USA actions now is still reasonable. When the exchange rate was 1.55x it was painful!
There is a misconception on BR actions verses tactical for sure! The application and style of shooting are important in the design. No doubt perfect machining and tight tolerances are required and those who are not competitive or those who have not studied the sport do not fully understand this and this isn't always a big issue if the shooter does some research themselves.
As you know, you only have a limited time to drill 5 score shots down range and you want to make sure you do not upset the rifle in the process. The ability to drive 5 shots in a short time 10 secs or less is very important in be consistently successful in scoring small groups, and more so at 200 yds then 100yds...pending conditions.
You'll also notice design enhancements in the firing pin assemblies/systems. One fairly new action producer is now producing his own actions one of the reasons being a difference in opinion between himself and another manufacturer over the ignition system. Its good efforts like this that really drive the development of improving action designs. These differences are not easily recognized and often overlooked.
Now do they yield the results down range, well that remains to be seen. I'm told, jackets are the present stumbling block.......as opposed to action design.
I know you follow BRCentral fairly closely and sometimes these items are discussed, but usually is the personal phone call to the parties involved that reveals the inside track
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