Action Truing - how important?

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A gunsmith says he can't/won't do this for my Savage and is suggesting a Winchester or Remington action. Of course, if I get a different action, I will also require a different stock and a bedding job too.

Assuming that the bolt has already been lapped to get bearing on both lugs, how important to accuracy are the other steps in this process? How much accuracy am I potentially loosing by using a factory action that hasn't been "trued".
 
That all depends on how true the action is to start with....and what you are expecting for accuracy . For hunting or varmit work most Savages perform quite well right out of the box with a good load , most guns will outshoot their shooters .. :)
 
Unless you are replacing the barrel , why would you true the action?
If your gunsmith refuses to do the work you are asking for, find another gunsmith.
 
maynard said:
Unless you are replacing the barrel , why would you true the action?
If your gunsmith refuses to do the work you are asking for, find another gunsmith.
Click to expand...

The barrel is being replaced, and the savage bolt head will need to be replaced because it is the wrong size for the caliber.
 
It has been reported that the floating bolthead in the Savage design makes lapping in the bolthead unnecessary. How much action truing are you wanting to do? If the barrel threads are recut, you will have to rebarrel. Is the receiver face untrue? The lug seats with respect to the axis of the barrel and receiver? It is really hard to say if you are losing any accuracy. What accuracy level are you expecting? Is the rifle less accurate than other rifles you have?
 
MysticPlayer would be a good person to talk to on this subject as he is quite knowedgable in gunsmithing and Savage actions.

The main issue is however, how bad is your accuracy now and what are you expecting when this is all done? Another issue is the barrel, if you have a crappy barrel then no matter what you do to the action, it it still won't shoot.
 
Take into consideration that a Mauser 98 action, which is not noted for accuracy, can be barreled with a quality barrel in most hunting calibers and when properly bedded is usually capable of shooting 1/2 inch groups....

How much trueing do you need in a hunting rifle?

A bit different if you are striving to get all the accuracy you can from a mass produced action.... then you need to decide if you should buy a custom action rather than spend all the money on a "factory" action... which one will have a higher resale value....

If your gunsmith is not set up to accurize the type of action you have, then you have to find one that is set up to do it, or one that will make or buy what he needs to do the job..... that will usually cost more again.....

And all of this is wasted if you don't have a good barrel, stock, scope and mounts and ammo.....
 
I do not understand why the smith you are dealing with has an issue here. Savage actions are not much different to work with than any other.
To true up any action for rebarrelling is a wise thing to do. Each lathe has a slightly different center, so to true the action with the lathe that is to do the rebarrel work so the same center is used on both makes sense.
The Savage bolt head replacement would make re lapping lugs prudent,and as you are rebarrelling headspace in not an issue as it will need to be set for the new caliber anyway.
I am confused here as to why you would want to replace the action if you already have 1. Keep in mind that although Savage actions are decent, for resale or basic value , you will not get as much of your investment back using the Savage as a platform to work on, if you intend to keep it and shoot it then there is no reason not to proceed.
Tiriag and Guntech both make valid points as well
 
You NEED a quality recoil lug. SharpShooterSupply.

What you don't need is a smith that can't/won't true the face of an action other than a Rem or Win. Are you trusting him to chamber your barrel???

I think there are 3 smiths above that can/will do it.
 
Thanks for all the replies.
OK. I guess I need to explain my dilemma in a little more depth.

I've been using my rifles to shoot some ORA and DCRA precision matches (out to 800 meters.) I may want to do F class later on. Obviously, I want all the accuracy I can squeeze out of my rifle and wallet - but I'm known to be a cheapskate when it comes to competition equipment :) Just ask Hungry.

I presently have a Winchester model 70 short action bedded into a HS precision varmint stock and equipped with a very old target barrel that is somewhat light for target barrels and was designed to shoot IVI. I used this rifle once to tie for 3rd place in the sniper matches at CFSAC about 10+ years ago. Its sometimes still capable of some one-ragged-hole groups at 100 yards, and the throat looks ok but the scores in competition aren't keeping up anymore. The fact that I can no longer get much practice to learn the wind doesn't help when using a .308

I also have a Savage single shot .223 bedded into a heavy laminate target style stock. It is fun to shoot pennies at 100 yards, but in competition, I've found the .223 is all over the place in the wind and my spotter is unable to see the swirl or the splash (OK he can't see it on the .308 either... :rolleyes: ). I really like the ergonomics of the stock and the location of the safety on the tang of action.

I've decided that I'm going to get a 6.5x284 in order to keep up with the arms race.

Basically, I have the option of:

1. Rebarreling the Savage to 6.5 and getting a new bolt head for it. It shoots well in present configuration, but I think rebarreling and getting a different bolt head would change some things that may necessitate action truing. The Winchester can be kept for short range matches or matches that need a magazine.
2. Rebarreling the short action Winchester to 6.5, thereby making the magazine pretty much useless as well as wasting a barrel that may still have some life. The Savage would gather dust as a Safe Queen.
3. The more expensive option: Getting another Winchester or Remington in a long action to build upon.
The Winchester can be kept for short range matches or matches that need a magazine and the Savage would gather dust as a Safe Queen.

Any further advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
 
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You may find that your short action does not work very well with 6.5x284
I have built several and have used long actions, ie 30-06 etc so the 284 cartridges will not only feed reasonably well, and fit into the mag well but also you you can use and seat the long high BC bullets out some for accuracy
 
It looks like you will be in the F open class with the 6.5 (I think) which means that you will be up against some pretty big guns. Buy a custom action if you are going that route. If you want to stay with the Savage then go with 6.5 x 55 so your barrel will last longer and consider it a learning experience until you decide to drop more money and accept rebarrelling on a regular basis.
 
I am not sure how well a short action will work in 6.5x55 again the case is longer than what most short actions will work well with.
Ian has merit in the 6.5x55 being less of a barrel burner than the 6.5x284
 
I am not sure how well a short action will work in 6.5x55 again the case is longer than what most short actions will work well with.
Ian has merit in the 6.5x55 being less of a barrel burner than the 6.5x284

Damn 1st double tap sorry
 
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I would have no problem building an "F" class rifle on a Savage action. Especially a single shot. There are aspects of the Savage design which are interesting to me.
The Savage receivers I have checked have been remarkably straight. Threads have been concentric. Locking lug seats, square. Rifles I have built on Savage actions have shot very well. As PEI Rob mentioned, one should just replace the recoil lug. The stock lugs are ridiculously imperfect. Fixable, but easier to just replace.
Truing of the Savage receiver, if such was necessary, would be easily accomplished. If one can't ture it up, he can't determine whether or not such might be necessary either
I would also lean toward the 6.5x55. The 260 Remington would be better if you want to be able to use the magazine. The ballistic advantage of the 6.5/284 accomplishes little or nothing and barrel life is significantly shortened.
My opinion? Go ahead and use the Savage but consider a different 'smith. Regards, Bill.
As far as the necessity for a custom action is concerned, I don't believe it. I have won over good shooters shooters using rifles built on Stolle and RPA actions when I was shooting a Model 70 based rifle. The difference being that I had a good day and my fellow competitors did not. I confess, the roles have also been reversed as well!
 
How "bad" is the '98 mauser action? What can/is done to increase it's accuracy potential?
I understand that it'll never be a push-feed 70 or a 700 but how close can it be made?
 
I have had the pleasure of shooting and building a few 'custom' rifles on these Savage actions and am suitably impressed. Even in factory form, they are more accurate then they should be.

Let's start with the toughest question - How accurate are you? Can you shoot in the 2's or less on any given day? condition doping is the number one failure of non winning shooters, myself included.

Looking over the rules of most LR shooting, scoring usually requires MOA or better with the X being sub MOA to differing degrees. We all want the most accurate rig but missing conditions by a few mph is many times greater then the difference in mechanical accuracy between the best rifle and slightly less.

So, stick with the standard Savage action. Put on a match barrel with a properly cut true chamber (this is the most critical part of any accurate rifle). Set for min headspace. Load concentric and consistent ammo (not always easy). There is little reason why this rifle cannot shoot in the 2's. I have a few in the cabinet right now so can say it is very possible. I have never trued an action and so far, doesn't seem to need it.

The out of box Savage actions have the tightest and truest lockup of any commercial action I have played with. I see little gains with extensive BR truing. The action is not the weak link. Neither is the recoil lug (but that is easily and inexpensively changed so why not).

Can it be improved? Of course, but then wouldn't a BR action be better?

Best thing you can do is set yourself up with the ballistic advantage and learn how to dope that combo. The better you get at doping conditions, the more accurate your rifle will become.

Consider the 6.5 Mystic as an alternative to the 6.5-284 or 260. Fits nicely in between and could be made to cycle through a short action although a med to long action will always give you more options.

The 6mm and 7mm are also excellent choices. With a rifle weight of 10kg, you have a lot of options to build a heavy gun. Put all the weight in that barrel and block. Give yourself the biggest heat sink you can. This will allow you to use different cases then the norm. use the lightest stock that will work. Weight is best put in that barrel.

As to throat life, that is a compromise that only you can decide on. Personally, if gaining a ballistic edge is possible, I would put all my resources towards that. Simply because I am not that good at doping conditions. Any combo that can shoot through conditions is my goal.

I would rather have a consistent 1/2MOA wind bucker then a wind drifter that can shoot in the 1's on a dead calm day. Most shooting days are windy.

Some are willing to spend a lot of money on an action that has very limited benefits in the general scheme of things, but will cringe at having to change a barrel after a couple of seasons of shooting. I say false economy.

I would take the difference in action price and buy a few more quality barrels. That way when the barrels burn out, I have spares ready to go. Fresh accurate barrels are the same as a newly rebuilt and tuned race motor. You need them to win races.

With the amount of rifle weight in F class unlimited, I would lean towards a very fast 7mm. 6.5 bullets are great. heavy 7mm bullets are better. A 7WSM/RSAUM, 7 Mystic or some 280AI version would be my choice. Recoil is upped but shouldn't be a problem given the rifle weight, throat life the same as the 6.5-284, measureable gain in wind bucking - priceless.

Jerry
 
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