Are there definite benefits to a custom action vs rem 700 action? I'm assuming steels used are similar, and biggest thing I'm womdering is strength and rigidity much higher or noticeably higher on the custom actions when installing a heavy massive barrel? I'm really entertaining my first custom build and I was thinking of a tikka action until I heard they are cast metal actions :/
Actions by Defiance, stiller etc... Vs a remmy action that's trued up
- Thread starter Mike112288
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I can't speak for the metallurgy, but you certainly can't go wrong with Defiance. I guess it depends on who works the 700, Tac Ops in Beverly Hills builds arguably the nicest tactical bolt action you can get your hands on, and its a 700 action. The test groups from those rifles are almost unbelievable. BAT makes a really nice action too....I've never handled one, but they sure look beefy and well designed.
I am no expert as to the steel used on custom actions. I do run a few customs by Defiance and Borden. With that said I get amazing performance out of a 300 WM on a Borden and also a 6.5X47 on a defiance. My Sherman on a Borden is awesome as well. If you got the cash I would go with a custom. Depending on your gun smith the costs to true/blueprint a Remington 700 can really add up. In the end the 700 action can cost almost what a custom does. Customs have tighter tolerances and are ready to go. Each will work it depends on your budget. I am building a light weight 6.5X47 right now on a 700 SA just to keep the cost dow. Got a good deal on the action. I am sure you would be happy with either. Good luck.
but your resale value is going to remain higher for a longer period of time because at the end of the day no matter how much you spend on a remington action it's still just a 450 dollar remington action, sucks you have to put the same value into making it a good one
A 700 can be trued and the bolt 'bumped' (and done well) for as little as $225 and all other things equal (caliber and quality barrel fitting) will shoot as well or better as the same barrels on custom actions. You don't have the prestige of a custom action, but if you stay with the original 700 extractor system you have a safer rifle than some of the custom ones...
The biggest features a custom offers (depending on the model) is an integral rail and recoil lug. I have a 700 in 7mag and it's a good hunting rifle but for a target gun I prefer a receiver with enclosed ejection port and integral rail. Most customs have more material enclosing the action where the 700 is an open design.
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mebiuspower
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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Defiance action is like butter...
The reason is that the custom actions are better for massive heavy barrel due to the barrel tenon. It is a bit longer than Rem 700.
I have a Defiant Tactical action and coming soon a Bighorn TL3 action. They will hold 30 inch long barrel very well.
I also have a trued Rem 700 police action (6BR) with the custom barrel and it shoots beautifully. If you plan to shoot very often, get the custom. If shooting for fun and for pleasure, any factory action will do just fine, just replace to the custom barrel.
I have a Defiant Tactical action and coming soon a Bighorn TL3 action. They will hold 30 inch long barrel very well.
I also have a trued Rem 700 police action (6BR) with the custom barrel and it shoots beautifully. If you plan to shoot very often, get the custom. If shooting for fun and for pleasure, any factory action will do just fine, just replace to the custom barrel.
With customs you'll get a smoother bolt travel, your bolt lift and lock up is better, you can get them with lug and rail built it, barrel thread tenon is longer allowing the biggest barrels to hung off them with out issues. Don't get me wrong I run a lot of tured Remington's and they shoot just as good as my customs. At the end of the day it all comes down to what your looking for and how much you want to spend. A rem will run a guy about 600 and then whatever your smith charges to do the work you want. A defiance or surgeon will go for around $2000, stillers are a bit cheap and every bit as good. Wait times on ordering customs can be painful but well worth it in the end.
I agree with this. I've got a bunch of trued Rems and they all shoot great but at the end of the day it's still a Remington. Takes a lot of work to get them right. If finances allow I would go custom every time.
Mystic Precision
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- Summerland, BC
Fit, finish, feel... those are the most obvious difference when playing with "good" custom actions. Yes, even in the custom world, there is a range of good, better, best.
A custom action is supposed to fix the deficiencies in the factory Rem 700. Some do it well... some need fixing.
The factory open top action can flex if you hang a big heavy pipe off it... but there are simple ways to solve this that don't cost anything more then what you will do in the build.
Does a custom action shoot more accurately then a properly prepped and tuned Rem 700, no... but some Rem 700s need ALOT of TLC and the costs start to converge.
You can buy a factory Mustang and rebuild it into a "Shelby" or you can just buy a Shelby for more money...
I run a Titanium Pierce Single shot FTR with all the bells and whistles. Runs great and I have had very nice consistent accuracy with it. The thing I love the most about this action is the positive and strong extraction. This a Rem 700 will have a hard time replicating without some serious mods.
then you have to look at the tasks. Building a single shot F class or range rifle, customs have some very tangible advantages. Build a PRS type roll in the dirt type rig, and some of those advantages might actually prove to be negatives.
Or there might be features that are only offered in the custom world that will be advantageous. Rem 700 will never have a 60deg bolt lift.. if this is what you want, the choice is obvious.
So start with the goals and objectives with key features in the operation that will help you accomplish your tasks... then find the parts that will do the job.
Currently, playing with the Rem 783 and continue to be super impressed with how well this action is designed for AICS mag feeding. I feel it offers several advantages over the typical Rem 700 footprint actions. In a 90deg bolt throw action, it is a blend of the must haves I look for. How's that for something complete different?
Jerry
A custom action is supposed to fix the deficiencies in the factory Rem 700. Some do it well... some need fixing.
The factory open top action can flex if you hang a big heavy pipe off it... but there are simple ways to solve this that don't cost anything more then what you will do in the build.
Does a custom action shoot more accurately then a properly prepped and tuned Rem 700, no... but some Rem 700s need ALOT of TLC and the costs start to converge.
You can buy a factory Mustang and rebuild it into a "Shelby" or you can just buy a Shelby for more money...
I run a Titanium Pierce Single shot FTR with all the bells and whistles. Runs great and I have had very nice consistent accuracy with it. The thing I love the most about this action is the positive and strong extraction. This a Rem 700 will have a hard time replicating without some serious mods.
then you have to look at the tasks. Building a single shot F class or range rifle, customs have some very tangible advantages. Build a PRS type roll in the dirt type rig, and some of those advantages might actually prove to be negatives.
Or there might be features that are only offered in the custom world that will be advantageous. Rem 700 will never have a 60deg bolt lift.. if this is what you want, the choice is obvious.
So start with the goals and objectives with key features in the operation that will help you accomplish your tasks... then find the parts that will do the job.
Currently, playing with the Rem 783 and continue to be super impressed with how well this action is designed for AICS mag feeding. I feel it offers several advantages over the typical Rem 700 footprint actions. In a 90deg bolt throw action, it is a blend of the must haves I look for. How's that for something complete different?
Jerry
The biggest features a custom offers (depending on the model) is an integral rail and recoil lug. I have a 700 in 7mag and it's a good hunting rifle but for a target gun I prefer a receiver with enclosed ejection port and integral rail. Most customs have more material enclosing the action where the 700 is an open design.
Ya... This
If you want accurate, the action must be stiff. In these pictures you can see in particular the steel across the top of the ejection port which provides whats needed to support the heavy barrel. Now alternatively... you could silver solder a steel picatinniy rail to the top of a Remmy and get the functionality for cheap.
The advantage grows with calibre and barrel length/weight.
You can get by with a light action in 223 because the basic mechanical stresses and impulses are low.
Once you get into a 308 or similar, the difference is clear.
The other side of the coin is resale value...
You can true a Remmy and not add a dollar of value to the rifle.
Use a Defiance action and you'll get the return on resale.
Wow lots of supper good Input guys�� Ya I personally have the mentality I'd rather get the one that's already how I want it instead of spending a ton into a factory action and still having a factory Remington at the end of the day. I've been debating between a stiller predator or tac30 and the more expensive defiance and surgeon actions. I dig the built in rail and lug for sure. However if I save a lot of money and the stiller is just as quality and good as a surgeon or defiance then maybe that is the best choice. Fancy rimfires is all I have real experience with. I'm looking to have a custom "more affordable to shoot" centre fire rife built. Been looking 17 Hornet as well but there's like no actions for it other than factory offerings. 223 seems like the cheapest and available components so far. 204 is nice I like it a lot but for 223 I can if need be get cheaper factory ammo for compared to the 204. I really dig the 7mm and 6.5mm calibers. 300 win mag would be a gooder but can't imagine the cost over shot with all that powder to launch 210-220 grainers and never mind the thump! 16-20" heavy 223 barreled custom is tickling me right now. Is it possible that 3000$ would be enough just for a stiller action with a nice barrel installed? I'm trying to save money without cheaping out. Thinking I can install a trigger and stock myself later on when I can afford the rest
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I really like this feature and all my mag fed rifles have it.... even the Rem 783
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Defiance and Surgeon are in a different league vs Stiller. Add Borden, Nesika and Kelby to the D & S groups for "better/best" in the custom action world. For price point, I would suggest Pierce. There are also a couple of new Cdn manf actions .. one is a Rem clone and seems to be working well. The other is offering some neat features but has teething pains.
My current PRS 223 trainer is based off a Savage and all in, is less then the cost of a bare Definance/Surgeon/Nesika action.
So you can have great performance on a moderate budget
Pick your tasks, figure out your budget, decide how much bling you want... build it.
Jerry
If I was looking at building a custom rifle right now, I would take a hard look at the Insite Arms actions (I would also highly recommend them to build your custom - they are the only gunsmith in Canada that I would trust with my money).
Other solid options are the Defiance action and Surgeon. The Defiance feels great, I run it on my match rifle. If you do get a Defiance, I recommend getting the bolt turned down if you plan on shooting in dusty/dirty conditions. Defiance's are built to tight tolerances, and can cause issues in the field. I had to clean my action out twice a day while shooting the Shoot for the Green PRS match in Oklahoma this year. Other Defiance shooters had the same issue, however Surgeon shooters had no issues. If you are just shooting on a square range, then the tolerances of the standard Defiance will suit you fine.
I hear good things about the bighorn actions, but have never handled one so I can't say much about it. The Ultimatum action has an incredibly heavy bolt lift, so I definitely wouldn't recommend them. BAT's feel really nice, really tight tolerances, but again not great for field use. Stillers feel cheap and gritty, but I guess that's why they are on the cheaper end of the spectrum for actions.
Give the guys at Insite Arms a call, they will get you sorted out. They have a lot of experience with different actions, and shoot competitively as well.
Other solid options are the Defiance action and Surgeon. The Defiance feels great, I run it on my match rifle. If you do get a Defiance, I recommend getting the bolt turned down if you plan on shooting in dusty/dirty conditions. Defiance's are built to tight tolerances, and can cause issues in the field. I had to clean my action out twice a day while shooting the Shoot for the Green PRS match in Oklahoma this year. Other Defiance shooters had the same issue, however Surgeon shooters had no issues. If you are just shooting on a square range, then the tolerances of the standard Defiance will suit you fine.
I hear good things about the bighorn actions, but have never handled one so I can't say much about it. The Ultimatum action has an incredibly heavy bolt lift, so I definitely wouldn't recommend them. BAT's feel really nice, really tight tolerances, but again not great for field use. Stillers feel cheap and gritty, but I guess that's why they are on the cheaper end of the spectrum for actions.
Give the guys at Insite Arms a call, they will get you sorted out. They have a lot of experience with different actions, and shoot competitively as well.
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