Is there aadvantage of lead bullets, other than price if one is doing all the melting and casting themselves? What is the limitations, if any as far as speed and energy are concerned. I'm assuming a lead 50bmg would melt before it left the barrel?
Advantage of cast bullets?
- Thread starter bandit86
- Start date
ultimate_monkey
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- victoria BC
casting your own is cheap, ecomonic, lets you controll things like the alloy and hardness, they make for great cheap plinking rounds in almost any gun, the downside is they cant stand up to the charge needed for higher velocity in CF rifles. you can use gas checks to push em a bit faster if you wish.
I've read anywhere from 1400 to 1700fps limitations with un-gaschecked bullets. With gas checks anywhere from 2200 to 3000fps limits. I've dabbled myself but haven't gotten un-gaschecked bullets to shoot accurately past 1100fps except in larger calibres (.459). With gas checks I have fired cast bullets up to 2300fps with hunting accuracy (under 10" at 100 yards; I was shooting about 8" at 100 yards.) If you are looking for match or sub MOA accuracy with cast bullets you may have to wait until the stars align.
Why would a .50 BMG round melt before it left the barrel?
.30-06 Springfield operates at 60,200psi max
.308 Winchester operates at 62,000psi max
7.62x54R operates at 57,000psi max
.50 BMG operates at 54,800psi max
Even in terms of pure velocity .50BMG only fires around 3000fps in the upper (not top) end. Kinetic energy doesn't mean nearly as much to cast bullets as pure velocity does.
I do it more for the price. The cheapest I have found jacketed .308 projectiles are $0.30 each. I can cast a bullet using wheel weights I got for free and add a gas check for $0.03. My Norc M14 shoots a tad under 2" at 100 yards with factory ammo and 8" with cast bullets. Great for plinking and could even work for hunting in a pinch.
I also love using 500gr spire point .459 cast bullets in my .45-70 for plinking at tree stumps, logs, and broken electronics. They can easily clear 12" of poplar at only 1300fps.
Why would a .50 BMG round melt before it left the barrel?
.30-06 Springfield operates at 60,200psi max
.308 Winchester operates at 62,000psi max
7.62x54R operates at 57,000psi max
.50 BMG operates at 54,800psi max
Even in terms of pure velocity .50BMG only fires around 3000fps in the upper (not top) end. Kinetic energy doesn't mean nearly as much to cast bullets as pure velocity does.
I do it more for the price. The cheapest I have found jacketed .308 projectiles are $0.30 each. I can cast a bullet using wheel weights I got for free and add a gas check for $0.03. My Norc M14 shoots a tad under 2" at 100 yards with factory ammo and 8" with cast bullets. Great for plinking and could even work for hunting in a pinch.
I also love using 500gr spire point .459 cast bullets in my .45-70 for plinking at tree stumps, logs, and broken electronics. They can easily clear 12" of poplar at only 1300fps.
A lead bullet fired from a 50bmg would not exit the barrel as molten lead splatter?
If you're shooting that 50 cal lead bullet 3000 FPS, than yeah, it'll probably strip/deform/melt a bit. I dare someone to get some 50 cal minieball bullets and load them with a full case of trail boss in a 50bmg... 1000fps here we come 
I dare someone to get some 50 cal minieball bullets and load them with a full case of trail boss in a 50bmg... 1000fps here we come
I found this video a while ago. I love it but I can't afford a .50 BMG to try it out with
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVCtGtxZyoQ
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Bullet casters are inveterate tinkerers. And cheap ones, at that. Sometimes it takes some fiddling around to get good accuracy, sometimes it doesn't. It opens the door to obsolete cartridges and guns. It can make heavy recoiling guns pleasant to practice with.
The saving money part is a bit of an illusion. You shoot more, buy more moulds, more gizmos. I can shoot 32-40 for under 5.00/100, 450/400NE under 50.00/100. One that loaded rounds are far and few between for, one that is 90.00/20.
But, it's a bit like fly tying, you created it yourself. There is a lot of satisfaction when you get it all working the way you want.
The saving money part is a bit of an illusion. You shoot more, buy more moulds, more gizmos. I can shoot 32-40 for under 5.00/100, 450/400NE under 50.00/100. One that loaded rounds are far and few between for, one that is 90.00/20.
But, it's a bit like fly tying, you created it yourself. There is a lot of satisfaction when you get it all working the way you want.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
casting is cheap and you can play with alloy to get what you need
theres info floating around about cast in .50bmg there is guys who do it most of them use a gas checked wheel weight alloy bullet when you get into bigger bores lead bullets work differently then the small bore .30cals there is less chance of the down falls of cast you can push them faster in bigbores
theres info floating around about cast in .50bmg there is guys who do it most of them use a gas checked wheel weight alloy bullet when you get into bigger bores lead bullets work differently then the small bore .30cals there is less chance of the down falls of cast you can push them faster in bigbores
Yep, casting is really a tinker's game!
I have managed to match jacketed velocities with my .308Win. (200gr. #311299)
I have to clean it every 10 rounds or so to maintain 3.5" ish or less groups at 200 yards. The bore doesnt appear to be leading significantly, but just shoots better for the first 15-20rounds.
Yes these cast bullets CAN really shoot! It took me a long time to work up the loads and all the reloading particulars, but it came together.
One thing has become apparent to me. Twist rates, if slower (Such as 1:12" in .308, opposed to 1:10") seem to be able to reach higher velocities before accuracy starts to degrade at higher velocity levels.
I think the torque imparted to the bullets outer layer of alloy (during acceleration) is less affected in a slower twist rate. (at a given velocity)
My alloy has always been wheel weights + 8 feet of 50/50 Lead/Tin solder. Air cooled.
For maximum velocity loads for hunting, I like/tend to use much slower powders than what is "normally" used/reccommended for cast bullet shooting. (IMR4350 & IMR4831). I have fired close to 500 rounds with these powders, and they are perfectly safe in my rifle.
I also like to use IMR SR4759 for loads in the 1500-2000fps range. Past that velocity, my accuracy seems to suffer.
I use a dacron filler to take up the space between the top of the powder and the bottom of the bullet in ALL my loads that dont have at least 90%+ ish load density. The dacron does boost pressure/velocity by 25-30fps or so on average in the loads I tested. No big deal for sure.
I think it helps/aids to seal the expanding gasses behind the Gascheck, further enhancing the loads consistancy.
The loads that use filler have shown a definite trend to shoot smaller groups, and lower the Standard Deviation. CONSISTANTLY
The bullet is seated into the lands. And the bullet nose is coated with two layers of Lee Liquid allox. I feel this extra lube helps the bore riding (Lyman #311299) bullet, to hydraulicly hold near perfect center. At least that is my personal theory/feeling.
The bullet is sized to .310", and has a Hornady gascheck applied to the base.
Lyman Super Moly Lube is used in the bullet lube grooves.
Aluminum Gaschecks work great, but they tend to start failing (group wise) around 2200fps APPROXIMATELY.
This cast bullet shooting can create loads that take allot of work to assemble, but it is still fun for us shooters who like to tinker with fine details, and always try to improve.
Check out the "CAST BOOLETS" web site to learn huge amounts about cast bullets And Cast Bullet shooting.
I hope this information can help someone enjoy cast bullet shooting more!
I have managed to match jacketed velocities with my .308Win. (200gr. #311299)
I have to clean it every 10 rounds or so to maintain 3.5" ish or less groups at 200 yards. The bore doesnt appear to be leading significantly, but just shoots better for the first 15-20rounds.
Yes these cast bullets CAN really shoot! It took me a long time to work up the loads and all the reloading particulars, but it came together.
One thing has become apparent to me. Twist rates, if slower (Such as 1:12" in .308, opposed to 1:10") seem to be able to reach higher velocities before accuracy starts to degrade at higher velocity levels.
I think the torque imparted to the bullets outer layer of alloy (during acceleration) is less affected in a slower twist rate. (at a given velocity)
My alloy has always been wheel weights + 8 feet of 50/50 Lead/Tin solder. Air cooled.
For maximum velocity loads for hunting, I like/tend to use much slower powders than what is "normally" used/reccommended for cast bullet shooting. (IMR4350 & IMR4831). I have fired close to 500 rounds with these powders, and they are perfectly safe in my rifle.
I also like to use IMR SR4759 for loads in the 1500-2000fps range. Past that velocity, my accuracy seems to suffer.
I use a dacron filler to take up the space between the top of the powder and the bottom of the bullet in ALL my loads that dont have at least 90%+ ish load density. The dacron does boost pressure/velocity by 25-30fps or so on average in the loads I tested. No big deal for sure.
I think it helps/aids to seal the expanding gasses behind the Gascheck, further enhancing the loads consistancy.
The loads that use filler have shown a definite trend to shoot smaller groups, and lower the Standard Deviation. CONSISTANTLY
The bullet is seated into the lands. And the bullet nose is coated with two layers of Lee Liquid allox. I feel this extra lube helps the bore riding (Lyman #311299) bullet, to hydraulicly hold near perfect center. At least that is my personal theory/feeling.
The bullet is sized to .310", and has a Hornady gascheck applied to the base.
Lyman Super Moly Lube is used in the bullet lube grooves.
Aluminum Gaschecks work great, but they tend to start failing (group wise) around 2200fps APPROXIMATELY.
This cast bullet shooting can create loads that take allot of work to assemble, but it is still fun for us shooters who like to tinker with fine details, and always try to improve.
Check out the "CAST BOOLETS" web site to learn huge amounts about cast bullets And Cast Bullet shooting.
I hope this information can help someone enjoy cast bullet shooting more!
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Boolitcaster
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island
I would try casting a bullet which could be sized to the 50 bmgs bore diameter and then paper patch it to groove diameter.
This would require a custom mould and perhaps some custom sizing dies made up.
As said above, bullet casters are inherent tinkerers.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
^This.
A .65 calibre smoothbore muzzleloading pistol. I use the .62 mould that came with it and a lubricated & heavy cotton patch.
It's throaty boom is really neat.
roberto mervici
Regular
- Location
- Prov.Quebec, Canada
Till now the only experience is with 45/70, Siamese mauser action, I cast 350gr. wheel weight water cool gas check, (N.O.E. mould) IMR 3031 at speed of 2230 fps ( Chrony average speed ) group inside 1.5" at 50 yrds.
I also cast 9.3 and 8mm boolits, also gas check, but haven't got time to test fired yet.
I also cast 9.3 and 8mm boolits, also gas check, but haven't got time to test fired yet.
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Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Robert, I have shot a few different handloads in my .458x2inch American on an FN-Mauser K-98 action. Pretty much identical to your 45-70 Siamese considering, action strength with external ballistics and a straight wall case design and nearly identical powder capacity. I've had very good luck at the 100 yard targets, with 55 grains of IMR 3031 under the Hornday 350 RN Interlock and 52 grains of IMR 3031 under the Remington SP in 405 grains. I also used the lead Idaho Territory plain base 405 using "the load" 13 grains of Red Dot (pistol powder) as a real pussycat load that seems to approximate the .357 Magnum out of a rifle IMO. These are the only ones, that I can quote from memory.
Sorry for the highjack guys.........
Sorry for the highjack guys.........
I can't remember where I saw it, while mold shopping late one night, but I have come across some monster 0.510 molds that would be awesome in a 50 Bmg. If I recall I think they were around 8-900gn spire points.
