Advice on accuracy

mackillan

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I wish to buy a gun with wood stock to hunt moose but also take to the range. I want deadly accuracy with velocity to take out moose as well. If you had around 3-3.5 K to spend including a scope what would you buy and in what caliber? Does the following with a Swar scope fit the bill? I want an elite hunting rifle that has a walnut stock that can be used as a semi precision shooter at the range.

Is a steyr an elite out of the box hunting rifle. Would this package with the swar scope be a decent deal? What caliber would have a flat trajectory yet take out moose bear etc?
http://www.steyrarms.com/index.php?id=159
 
I would build a custom rifle for that money. The ONLY way you will get the best possible accuracy is if you use the best possible barrel. Factory guns don't have the best barrels - period. Even just customizing a mediocre and inexpensive hunting rifle with a good barrel will shoot far better than factory guns costing 5 times as much, and that is not hyperbole, that is fact.

Before you blow the whole wad, it is worthy to note that "hunting" and "Target" rifles are diametrically opposite in so many ways and trying to find a one-size-fits-all rifle WILL involve compromise in some areas, mostly calibre/cartridge, weight, the stock, and the type of scope you would want to use.

I'd build a 6.5X55 Swede on a cheap Remington SPS. You can kill any north american game at a humane distance and hit pop cans at 1000 yards all day. Use quick release rings and get a Bushnel 3-9 for hunting and get a good quality target scope for targets... keep the expensive and heavy glass out of the bush
 
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The best wooden stocked modern hunting rifle I would buy is a Savage American in 7-08 (7RM if you really must have velocity). Great and SAFE trigger, center feed detachable mag, sub MOA barrels, a stock that fits me (YMMV), and something that doesn't weigh a bunch.

I would hollow out the stock, line with fibreglass and back fill with expanding styrofoam. There is no solid wood stock that is immune from moisture.

I have used and hunted with Elite 4200 scopes for the last decade. Never had an issue holding zero or adj for LR shots. More then adequate glass, excellent low light ability and rainguard - cause it does rain.

For me, hunting rifles are pure function. I do not want a 'pretty' rifle cause bling does nothing for me in the bush. I want a rifle that will put that cold bore shot exactly where I am expecting every single time under any condition I plan on hunting.

I want a dead reliable bolt system that will not lock up if it gets a bit dirty or wet. I will never use a low tolerance custom action because of this. Some of the most valuable hunting rifles are built on the Mauser action due to its legendary ability to function when it matters.

The rifle must be accurate enough to put 3rds into a target the size of the boiler room at my max distance. MOA or better is all I will ever need on big game. 1/4 min range accuracy means absolutely nothing in the field if it means poor feeding/extraction or the chance of jamming up.

Many have spent thousands on hunting rifles. In fact, the most expensive rifles I know of are blinged out hunting rifles. Ironically, they don't shoot any better then a properly tuned Savage and all that embelishment may not stand up to rust in the field.

My second hunting rifle was a BSA sporterized P17 Enfield with its orig barrel. The stock was a nice walnut stock which I bedded and hogged out. That rifle had a bore the condition of most sidewalks and was green from the copper fouling despite using moly. I tuned the orig trigger to a nice single stage pull. It even had the floorplate shortened so it was flush with the stock just like a Rem.

Dirt cheap, nothing fancy but man did it work. It was dead on cold bore accurate out to 800yds. Repeated this over 5yrs and it never missed a shot as long as I doped the wind right. It was sub MOA accurate with 165gr SST's all the way out to 1000yds.

I sold that rifle for $150 and I am sure it is working great for its present owner.

If you really must spend the money, put the majority towards a great pipe and stock - laminated or a wooden stock with an alum chassis. That will do more for you then any fancy action ever will.

Jerry
 
Agree with Obtunted, for that money you can build a much better gun than you could buy.

There are several supporting dealers on this board who can provide first class bbls, actions, stocks and scopes. In addition there are several first class gunsmiths on this board. Why buy a stock car when you can have a handmade custom car for the same $$

My 0.02$ worth.....
 
I have a few T3s and avanguard and a sendero. Maybe ill keep them lol. Thanks.
The best wooden stocked modern hunting rifle I would buy is a Savage American in 7-08 (7RM if you really must have velocity). Great and SAFE trigger, center feed detachable mag, sub MOA barrels, a stock that fits me (YMMV), and something that doesn't weigh a bunch.

I would hollow out the stock, line with fibreglass and back fill with expanding styrofoam. There is no solid wood stock that is immune from moisture.

I have used and hunted with Elite 4200 scopes for the last decade. Never had an issue holding zero or adj for LR shots. More then adequate glass, excellent low light ability and rainguard - cause it does rain.

For me, hunting rifles are pure function. I do not want a 'pretty' rifle cause bling does nothing for me in the bush. I want a rifle that will put that cold bore shot exactly where I am expecting every single time under any condition I plan on hunting.

I want a dead reliable bolt system that will not lock up if it gets a bit dirty or wet. I will never use a low tolerance custom action because of this. Some of the most valuable hunting rifles are built on the Mauser action due to its legendary ability to function when it matters.

The rifle must be accurate enough to put 3rds into a target the size of the boiler room at my max distance. MOA or better is all I will ever need on big game. 1/4 min range accuracy means absolutely nothing in the field if it means poor feeding/extraction or the chance of jamming up.

Many have spent thousands on hunting rifles. In fact, the most expensive rifles I know of are blinged out hunting rifles. Ironically, they don't shoot any better then a properly tuned Savage and all that embelishment may not stand up to rust in the field.

My second hunting rifle was a BSA sporterized P17 Enfield with its orig barrel. The stock was a nice walnut stock which I bedded and hogged out. That rifle had a bore the condition of most sidewalks and was green from the copper fouling despite using moly. I tuned the orig trigger to a nice single stage pull. It even had the floorplate shortened so it was flush with the stock just like a Rem.

Dirt cheap, nothing fancy but man did it work. It was dead on cold bore accurate out to 800yds. Repeated this over 5yrs and it never missed a shot as long as I doped the wind right. It was sub MOA accurate with 165gr SST's all the way out to 1000yds.

I sold that rifle for $150 and I am sure it is working great for its present owner.

If you really must spend the money, put the majority towards a great pipe and stock - laminated or a wooden stock with an alum chassis. That will do more for you then any fancy action ever will.

Jerry
 
mackillan, please don't let me pursuade you on getting a rifle of your dreams. If you got the bucks, whatever floats your boat.

I just wanted to share my thoughts on performance vs appearance. A $2000 Exhibition grade Bastogne Walnut stock with a hand rubbed oil finish is visually stunning but will not help you kill a moose any faster.

Might get pretty #####y if it got soaked.

I love pretty guns and wish I had the finances to endulge but I still feel strongly that a pretty gun looks really ugly when it doesn't put out in the field.

As to that Steyr, I would be amazed if it shot any better then 1/2 min at 200yds.

Jerry
 
Here is a wooden stocked 700 with a custom stainless barrel...

I had a used rifle, bought the factory 700 stock used for $225, installed a quality barrel, $600, installed dual dovetail mounts and a Leupold 3.5 x 10. Glassed and floated and trigger job... without a scope it is less than $1500 to replace it. Killed a moose at 328 yards with the first shot and it is only a 7mm 08. It doesn't cost any more to make a bigger caliber.

7mm%2008.JPG
 
get two rifles

Hunting rifle
--------------
Remington 700 SPS in 30-06 + Bushnell Banner scope = $850

Target rifle
---------------
??? for $2000 + Leupold VX-II 6-18 target scope = $2700
 
I would never spend over $2600 on any factory rifle.I would have a good gunbuilder put one together using a trued and lapped action,a high quality aftermarket barrel,and a mcmillan stock,for that kind of money.
 
Buy a Sauer 202, great gun and comes in many different price ranges acording to what type of wood and shoots great, I have a couple of half inch groups on paper at 200 yards with my 7mm when things come together.
Elmer
 
Once you get into the $3K range custom begins to make sense. There are downsides to custom built rifles though, so if you go this route do so with your eyes open. The length of time it takes to get a project completed can try the patience of a saint. The fact that the rifle was made specifically for you might mean that you never get your money out of it, should you attempt to sell it. Perhaps a semi custom outfit that you can acquire more quickly would be a better choice, but it's your money and your time.

Either way, you have to make good choices in order to get the rifle you will be happy with; because it is you who controls each element of its construction. There's more to this than deciding between control round feed and push feed or between a wood stock and a synthetic stock. Too heavy a barrel contour and the rifle will not balance. If the barrel is too long it's a problem to maneuver in heavy cover. If the barrel is too short muzzle blast becomes a problem. If the rifle is too light recoil becomes a problem, and the sights never settle onto the target. If the rifle is too heavy, you'll just leave it at home. If the rifle is chambered for too powerful a cartridge you may never shoot it well, let alone enjoy shooting it. I love the ads that say, ". 585 Nyatti, 750 @ 2600 seemed like a good idea at the time”, or ". 460 Weatherby fired once."

Goods communication with the gunsmith is paramount. He needs to understand what it is that you want. He wants you to be a satisfied customer; that's good for the resume. But in order to do a good job for you, he needs as much information as you can give him. If he makes a suggestion don't disregard it out of hand, but at the same time, don't agree to it if you do not understand how that change might effect your rifle. If you have your heart set on a McMillan stock, but he says he can give you a killer deal on a Ram Line, that might not be to your advantage.
 
Shiloh Sharps in .45/70 or larger caliber....i have some neat old photos of oldtimers with their grizzlies they took with .45 Cal. Sharps rifles back in the 1800s. I wouldn't hesitate to take one of my Sharps after moose.
 
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