Advice on what to buy as an Enfield restoration project.

AdrianM

AdrianM

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I'm going to put an ad on the EE for an Enfield restoration project. I've just got into milsurps. I've owned an SMLE that was sportered. I've recently bought a mint No.5, which is a nice gun, but there is nothing to do but shoot it. Now I want to restore one.

I know that it's important to find one with all the permanently metal bits attached. I know I need to find one that isn't bubba'd with holes drilled and that kind of thing. I want to do the job all myself without needing to reblue or take it to a gunsmith.

What I don't know is what model I should buy to make restoration reasonably cheap and parts easy to find.

All advice welcome and if you have a project gun in your safe with a good bore that you have lost interest in, PM me.

Adrian
 
A No.5 would be the cheapest and easiest, since you already have a complete set of parts to draw on. :)

My impression, unsupported by any scientific statistical research, is that the SMLE No.1 MkIII and the No.4 rifles are the most common, and the No.5 and the P14/M1917 significantly less so, and the earlier MLE could be described as rare.
 
What about the front sites? They have 'ears' that are permanently mounted that are commonly cut off, aren't they? Also do they have a permanent bayo lug like the No.5? If these pieces are removed, then I assume it's a bit more of a challenge to restore one.
 
The nose cap on the No. 4 can come off, it is held in by a screw through a slot in the front sight base. The bayonet lug is machined right onto the barrel itself.

CGN Member "superbee" had another 1943 LB with matching bolt that is restorable on the EE not too long ago. I bought it's sister rifle that I am currently working on now.

One thing to watch out for is the hand guard ring as I found out. To replace it, you must take the front sight blade off. That is where my project is at the moment but she is quite close to being complete again.
 
As Nabs said, the No.4's bayonet lugs are part of the barrel, which makes them even more permanent than the No.5's. Unfortunately, the "sporterising" of many No.4s included cutting back the barrel to get rid of the bayonet lugs, and once that is done restoration requires a replacement barrel which is not easy to find and thus too expensive for most people.

The bayonet lug on your No.5 is an integral part of the flash hider and foresight assembly which isn't an integral part of the barrel. It's a pretty tight fit, though, and not easy to remove, which is why the sporterising of these has so often and unfortunately included taking a hacksaw or grinder to the flash hider and/or bayonet lug. You can get reproductions of this assembly to restore a No.5. (You can also fit that part to a cut-down No.4 barrel, but it won't have the lightening cuts that were machined into the knox form of the No.5 barrel. These are hidden by the stock so it is a viable though imperfect option for restoring a No.5.)
 
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Get some exploaded schematic drawings of the rifles. Makes it easier to determine what is there, what isn't.
In general, the sported remains have to be good enough to justify the time and expense of restoration. Intact barrel with good bore, no extra holes, not refinished, no custom bubbery.
If the item is rare or desireable, then lesser condition might be acceptable.
One of my longer term projects is a Savage No. 4, serial 0C###. Wouldn't bother if it were not one made in the first couple of weeks production.
 
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I think the OP already has a "mint No. 5" that he recently bought. He seems to be asking what we would consider to be best and relatively easy for a restoration project. Since he already has a Number 5 rifle, then the options are a Number 1 Mark III, a Number 4 or a Pattern 14 rifle.

All three of these rifles are available, but condition and parts availability are going to be a factor. Parts are there but the older rifles are going to cost a lot more money to get parts for, especially in very good condition.

I would recommend a Number 4 Mark I rifle made by Long Branch. There are quite a few of these around, and the prices are still affordable. The Long Branch is Canadian, and much better finished than a lot of Wartime British made ones.

While fore-end bottom wood is a bit hard to find, it is available. Top handguards and butt stocks are a lot easier to find.

It should be complete with all metal parts, and the bolt should match the receiver number. Bore condition should be shiny, no rust or crap in it, and have very good rifling. A two groove rifle would be acceptable.

Wood can be replaced with minimum tools, and if the stocks are not too bad, dents can be steamed out and the wood LIGHTLY sanded with sandpaper or steel wool. This is hand work ---NO power tools please! It is surprising how these stocks clean up and look after only a small amount of work.

If there are still minor blemishes, small dings or whatever left, then that might also be acceptable. Those marks got there honestly, and are part of the History of that rifle. However, some people want "like new" condition, and that is all right too.

That's my vote.

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buffdog said:
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I think the OP already has a "mint No. 5" that he recently bought. l...

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Click to expand...

Yes, he does. That was the "complete set of parts" referred to in my first post. (My humour may lack humour, but it's subtle, eh?:redface:)

I think you are right to suggest that a No.4 is the most likely candidate, but if similarly restorable No.5 shows up, he shouldn't ignore it. When you have two, you can "collect" the nicer one and shoot the other.
 
tiriaq said:
Get some exploaded schematic drawings of the rifles. Makes it easier to determine what is there, what isn't.
In general, the sported remains have to be good enough to justify the time and expense of restoration. Intact barrel with good bore, no extra holes, not refinished, no custom bubbery.
If the item is rare or desireable, then lesser condition might be acceptable.
One of my longer term projects is a Savage No. 4, serial 0C###. Wouldn't bother if it were not one made in the first couple of weeks production.
Click to expand...


Tiriaq, can you point me in the right direction for some online diagrams? I'm sure they must be somewhere on CGN...isn't there an Enfield encyclopedia on here somewhere?

Thanks to everyone. I guess I'm on the hunt for a LB No.4 Mk 1.
 
Pop on over to milsurps dot com and take out a membership, then get into their Lee-Enfield section of their Military Knowledge Library....... then start pillaging.

There is absolutely EVERYTHING there that your little heart possibly could desire: manuals, diagrams, exploded drawings, Armourers' Manuals, instructions for the preparation of Match rifles.... you name it.

Matter of fact, there is a STICKY at the top of the Index to THIS forum. It is a DIRECT LINK.

Click on it and the treasure hunt is over!

And it is Treasure indeed.
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Missed one already...dang! I guess I gotta be quicker to pull the trigger in order to get one.

How were LB's finished? Blued? *I've since found an old thread that shows that they were blued into 1950 and at some point they changed to parkerized.
 
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