African Hunters Heads Up!
- Thread starter bangerboom
- Start date
bangerboom
New member
- Location
- Southern Ontario
Absolutley Excellent Post!
Very informative Blindside,
I've read a few books on the subject mainly Capstick, Ruark and the likes. They make mention as you did in not to forget the "whole" experience. The African experience is much more than just the hunt although that to me very significant as well. I am thinking about adding a post safari tour so that I can take it all in.
With regards to the tipping, Is the customary 15% the norm? Would that be calculated on the daily rate portion of the Safari or both the sum of daily rate and trophy fee combination? How do I distribute it among staff, PH, skinners, trackers, cooks, and houskeeping??
Also, with regards to trophies what would I be looking at price wise to have 3-4 (I'm an optimist ) trophy cape and horn combos dipped, packed and shipped to Canada??
Would you recommend having them mounted there? I know my local taxidermist well and feel more comfortable knowing that I could oversee progress and that I would have recourse should something need to be corrected.
Finally your thoughts on ammo? And what was you average shooting distance? Any saftey concerns while you were there? ie. drinking water, crime etc... I can make the adjustement of drinking alcohol "sanitized" beverages only, ("Beer it is not just for breakfast anymore!") I mean I am Canadian eh!
Lastly, What about vaccinations? Malaria, Yellowfever, West Nile, Hepatitis A, B,C, and every other form.....Any advice here would also be appreciated.
Thanks
Bangerboom
Very informative Blindside,
I've read a few books on the subject mainly Capstick, Ruark and the likes. They make mention as you did in not to forget the "whole" experience. The African experience is much more than just the hunt although that to me very significant as well. I am thinking about adding a post safari tour so that I can take it all in.
With regards to the tipping, Is the customary 15% the norm? Would that be calculated on the daily rate portion of the Safari or both the sum of daily rate and trophy fee combination? How do I distribute it among staff, PH, skinners, trackers, cooks, and houskeeping??
Also, with regards to trophies what would I be looking at price wise to have 3-4 (I'm an optimist
) trophy cape and horn combos dipped, packed and shipped to Canada??Would you recommend having them mounted there? I know my local taxidermist well and feel more comfortable knowing that I could oversee progress and that I would have recourse should something need to be corrected.
Finally your thoughts on ammo? And what was you average shooting distance? Any saftey concerns while you were there? ie. drinking water, crime etc... I can make the adjustement of drinking alcohol "sanitized" beverages only, ("Beer it is not just for breakfast anymore!") I mean I am Canadian eh!
Lastly, What about vaccinations? Malaria, Yellowfever, West Nile, Hepatitis A, B,C, and every other form.....Any advice here would also be appreciated.
Thanks
Bangerboom
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josquin said:I've never heard the cost of raising kids described quite that way!
Excellent post with lots of information. I'd be interested in info on this "Form 520". Presumably it is the required SA firearms importation form? I'd also be curious to know how you recommend flying; I've been told to absolutely avoid going through Britain with guns, for instance. Maybe better to fly via the US?
The form is sap520, stands for South African police form 520 which your right,is form arms and ammunition importation.. Actually if you want to hear the funnyness of it all....You cant go near US terminals with guns even staying in stowe. Emirates air...I gotta say this mods, kick me if you's want, but the Arabs dont want em. Their reason,and I quote directly from the mouth of an official of emirates in Dubai..." We cant be to careful since 9/11 you know",,,Oh God....Believe it or not, and this one stund me to he11 and back, but as long as they stayed in stowe the brits were the most open of all. Now these things change more often than I change my socks, so you'd best check it...AND DO NOT LISTEN TO AN AGENT...Go directly to the airline!!!!. The 520 is available on the PHASA sight.PHASA proffesional hunters association of south africa.. PHASA's sight is a good read anyhoo...Print yourself the form in double. Fill out much as is obvious. If/when you have a hick up with it. post the hick up,we'll all bang over it,that way everybody will go away with the answer
blindside said:
"Staying in stowe"
Was ist los??? Understood on things changing daily. One thing I'd like to have before I head off is a written (ie on paper with an ink signature) letter from the various agencies (esp. airlines) with their regulations clearly laid out in case I get a newbie/anti/dummy at the check-in, so I can ask to see a supervisor and show them what I was told From On High. Worth looking into, anyway.
Thanks for the info on PHASA. I'll check it out.
StuartGimme a minute to cool down. I spent an hour typing one finger to have it somehow get blown away....What I mean by above is you cannot have a stop over in USA of any nature with firearms.Or should I say couldnt when I went two summers ago
blindside said:
Ouch! Sorry about that. Thanks for the clarification. I now recall reading a comment somewhere that since there is/was no way to travel through the US with a firearm (as you suggest), the way around it was to get a hunting licence for whatever state you stop over in. Sounds pretty ridiculous but I suppose anything is possible these days.
Stuart[josquin said:Ouch! Sorry about that. Thanks for the clarification. I now recall reading a comment somewhere that since there is/was no way to travel through the US with a firearm (as you suggest), the way around it was to get a hunting licence for whatever state you stop over in. Sounds pretty ridiculous but I suppose anything is possible these days.
And from what I heard its 4-6 months for the USA papers to clear....If I were you, I think I'd see if the regs are still the same with britain as when I went. In short they'd allow a 12 hour stop..If thats so, I'd deposit a left testicle if needs be to go canada, london,RSA. Like I said states can be done, but man headaches...And the whole Arab thing with a gun, well that is out out
Ok,goin to give you the abridged version of what I tried. Put ABBA on,that ###y redhead soothes this beast...
The tips>
Your outfitter will want a hand in this matter. He does not want a bunch of ruined staff. And believe me that does happen. When an american throughs somebody the equivilant of 4 months pay, guess where he is for the next 3 months 29 days ? It aint at work....Tipping all gets done at the end...The PH for the most part is a percentage of 10-15 % of the trophy fees you have shot. But common sense comes into play. If you shoot a Rowan ward eland thats the biggest of the biggest and the fee is 2000$, well then naturally you'll feel like giving maybe 250 to the PH, but if a big eland is job one for you,and on the last day he leads you to a 28 " attempt, the outfitter will probably tell you to let that part of the tip slide. You order steak, the waitress brings hot dogs the manager would probably tell you not to reward that right...Likewise if you shoot 8000$ worth of trophies the outfitter will probably tell you to ignore the impala and gemsbok, cause just how do you tip for animals that are common as fleas and they basically beg you to shoot..
The general staff are very happy with anything. Depending on their jobs you'll probably average them 250-300 rand each per week your there...Get some 5's and 10's from your bank here to hand out at the airport etc. To the employees who help you at the airport a average of a 10 rand tip is good. Remember,everybody works for the airport weather they do or not..If it aint in uniform dont go near it. Dont let it come near you
Water>No worries, for the most part just like here
Diseases> not unless your going to go to one of their phuk parties.Laugh but true.. No theres no worries in SA
Taxidermy> I recommend lots of pics like your a CSI guy, ask your taxidermist where he likes measurements to be taken. Take them..Get it done here...Even if the guys never done it before(and my guy hadnt) he's more worried about word of mouth..Never mind the shipping costs go crazy. You cant watch the guy cross the ocean, and you sure cant sue him and he knows it...Get them fleshed and tanned there. Some will say salted is enough. Maybe it is most of the time, but do you want yours to be the one that doesnt pass?and they gotta be tanned to mount anyhoo, and tanned fleshed hide is the smallest/cheapest
Paying> Your paying for this. Dont walk around with your tongue in your pocket. If the outfitter aint producing the species he said he could. Do like I did about day 6 and no kudu. Get him to stop the land cruiser. Get out. Calmly walk around to his side, and with your neck outstretched, and screaming in his ear tell him to take you to the phuking kudu yesterday. There are times when they will try to appease you with lesser to see if you'll be stupid enough to take it. Remember these animals are pure money to them. If they can sell you a 52" kudu for 1000$ and save the 60 to be tranquilized and sold for auction all the better.. Dont settle for seconds. I would recommend you not wait the kudu till the last second however wait till you,ve seen some so you know big from small.Their probably the most deceiving to judge horn height.Pretty much every PH will tell you he fails that part of the exam..So even study some pics that give horn sizes in books,and on net before you go....Dont ever let anyone stop you from firing twice. They get the fee if they see blood,and all they care about is the meat. Theres an ol saying" Many the trophy fee spoiled by the words dont shoot again he's down"...Any doubt in your mind,let sliver. Your coin
The tips>
Your outfitter will want a hand in this matter. He does not want a bunch of ruined staff. And believe me that does happen. When an american throughs somebody the equivilant of 4 months pay, guess where he is for the next 3 months 29 days ? It aint at work....Tipping all gets done at the end...The PH for the most part is a percentage of 10-15 % of the trophy fees you have shot. But common sense comes into play. If you shoot a Rowan ward eland thats the biggest of the biggest and the fee is 2000$, well then naturally you'll feel like giving maybe 250 to the PH, but if a big eland is job one for you,and on the last day he leads you to a 28 " attempt, the outfitter will probably tell you to let that part of the tip slide. You order steak, the waitress brings hot dogs the manager would probably tell you not to reward that right...Likewise if you shoot 8000$ worth of trophies the outfitter will probably tell you to ignore the impala and gemsbok, cause just how do you tip for animals that are common as fleas and they basically beg you to shoot..
The general staff are very happy with anything. Depending on their jobs you'll probably average them 250-300 rand each per week your there...Get some 5's and 10's from your bank here to hand out at the airport etc. To the employees who help you at the airport a average of a 10 rand tip is good. Remember,everybody works for the airport weather they do or not..If it aint in uniform dont go near it. Dont let it come near you
Water>No worries, for the most part just like here
Diseases> not unless your going to go to one of their phuk parties.Laugh but true.. No theres no worries in SA
Taxidermy> I recommend lots of pics like your a CSI guy, ask your taxidermist where he likes measurements to be taken. Take them..Get it done here...Even if the guys never done it before(and my guy hadnt) he's more worried about word of mouth..Never mind the shipping costs go crazy. You cant watch the guy cross the ocean, and you sure cant sue him and he knows it...Get them fleshed and tanned there. Some will say salted is enough. Maybe it is most of the time, but do you want yours to be the one that doesnt pass?and they gotta be tanned to mount anyhoo, and tanned fleshed hide is the smallest/cheapest
Paying> Your paying for this. Dont walk around with your tongue in your pocket. If the outfitter aint producing the species he said he could. Do like I did about day 6 and no kudu. Get him to stop the land cruiser. Get out. Calmly walk around to his side, and with your neck outstretched, and screaming in his ear tell him to take you to the phuking kudu yesterday. There are times when they will try to appease you with lesser to see if you'll be stupid enough to take it. Remember these animals are pure money to them. If they can sell you a 52" kudu for 1000$ and save the 60 to be tranquilized and sold for auction all the better.. Dont settle for seconds. I would recommend you not wait the kudu till the last second however wait till you,ve seen some so you know big from small.Their probably the most deceiving to judge horn height.Pretty much every PH will tell you he fails that part of the exam..So even study some pics that give horn sizes in books,and on net before you go....Dont ever let anyone stop you from firing twice. They get the fee if they see blood,and all they care about is the meat. Theres an ol saying" Many the trophy fee spoiled by the words dont shoot again he's down"...Any doubt in your mind,let sliver. Your coin
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
blindside said:
I asked about getting skins tanned in Tanzania, and was told not to if I cared about the trophies. I said I had concerns about trying to get raw skins back into Canada, it's amazing how that issue was skirted here with no real answer forth coming, although I was led to believe I could import tanned skins. What I decided to do finally was to ship the heads and hides to a US taxidermist (Animal Artistry).
Boomer said:
I couldnt address the situation in tanzania. Like I said I would not get full taxi work done anywhere overseas or any more than 50 miles from my door, cause I want to be able to check on it. And I want the guy to know my word of mouth is his next meal....I cant say I havent seen good stuff come back taxi'd is RSA, but when I've seen crap, the guys had to live with crap on the wall
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I'm hoping my stuff will be home come spring. The work isn't going to be extravagant, I just want the hides tanned, and the heads ready to mount European style. The guys say that Animal Artistry hides a mounting bar in the rear of the skull, so if the customer wanted to he could simply hang the skull on his wall. I got the name of the company from our PH, and coincidentally that is who our hunting partner uses also. Once I found out I shouldn't get the tanning done in Dar es Salaam, it was an easy sell. I wonder what would of happened if I had the stuff just shipped home to me - likely would of been seized I suspect. I couldn't find a Canadian taxidermist who had experience with African trophies, and Animal Artistry seems to specialize in that field. I am confident I made a good choice, but the proof will be in the finished product.
Hi
My son and I went in June 2005. Here is my opinion.
Guns - 300 WSM bolt action
Ammo - handloaded 180 gr. partations, any premium bullet should be fine... note the animals are tougher across the board. The ribs are heavier, the hides are thicker( the hide on the back of the neck on a gemsbok is 1 1/2" thick) the animals just die easily.
Just put them in a factory box.
Length of shots - 30 - 290 yds. ..... practice shooting off sticks.
Travel - You can not go thur the U.S. plan and traveling thur Europe. We went thur Frankfurt .... checked the guns at one end picked them up at the other .... No problems.
Gun Case - Tuffpac ... it is some type of resin the is as tough as nails. It has wheels and looks like a set of gold clubs.
Medications - Check with your local health unit for the area your going to.
We took something for malaria and Twinrex?
Hides & Heads - We shot 12 animals and the deal was one shoudler mount each and than the balance were to be European mounts and hides. We shipped everything back here. Everything turned out great. If I was to do it agian I would get a couple more of the shoulder mounts done and forget the hides.
By the time you pay for the European mounts and hides done you are almost at the cost of doing the shoulder mount.
Addtional Info. Google - Accurate Reloading Forumns, there you will find a ton of info on planning your trip.
If you have any specfic questions just PM me.
Have fun!!!!
My son and I went in June 2005. Here is my opinion.
Guns - 300 WSM bolt action
Ammo - handloaded 180 gr. partations, any premium bullet should be fine... note the animals are tougher across the board. The ribs are heavier, the hides are thicker( the hide on the back of the neck on a gemsbok is 1 1/2" thick) the animals just die easily.
Just put them in a factory box.
Length of shots - 30 - 290 yds. ..... practice shooting off sticks.
Travel - You can not go thur the U.S. plan and traveling thur Europe. We went thur Frankfurt .... checked the guns at one end picked them up at the other .... No problems.
Gun Case - Tuffpac ... it is some type of resin the is as tough as nails. It has wheels and looks like a set of gold clubs.
Medications - Check with your local health unit for the area your going to.
We took something for malaria and Twinrex?
Hides & Heads - We shot 12 animals and the deal was one shoudler mount each and than the balance were to be European mounts and hides. We shipped everything back here. Everything turned out great. If I was to do it agian I would get a couple more of the shoulder mounts done and forget the hides.
By the time you pay for the European mounts and hides done you are almost at the cost of doing the shoulder mount.
Addtional Info. Google - Accurate Reloading Forumns, there you will find a ton of info on planning your trip.
If you have any specfic questions just PM me.
Have fun!!!!
ilw said:
Just take a pale of salt to the AR forum. Yes theres a ton of info, however 90+% of it comes from elite older money. The owner of the sight saeed's family own emirates air..Your talking old influential $'s on that sight..Not saying dont go have a look. Just saying try to keep that in mind when you do.
