AG42B Ammo. Is this stuff safe?

Innercity

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I purchased the rifle about a year ago, and have only been shooting Priv 6.5x55.
While looking into reloading for this rifle (I don't reload but I'd like too) I found that modern ammo is to hot for the rifle.
At some point I purchased some Hornady 6.5x55 140gr Vintage Match Ammo.

http://www.hornady.com/store/6.5-x-55-Swedish-Mauser-140-GR-BTHP-Vintage-Match/

Should I shoot this stuff or not?
 
Factory military ball ammo ran about 2600 out of a 29" barrel, and about 2510 or so out of the M38's 25" barrel. The AG42B Ljungman has about a 24" barrel so it would crony somewhere around 2500fps which is the velocity I loaded to when I was playing around with a Ljungman.

Hornady shows 2600fps for their vintage match ammo from a 24" test barrel. This is a bit too hot for a Ljungman. I'm betting the powder they use is also too slow for use in an semi auto. The important thing as you may already know, is that you don't want to batter the Safety/Take down assembly by using commercial ammo loaded past milspec pressure levels with slow powders.

You already mentioned that the Prvi ammo works ok, so at least you have one factory load you can use. However, since you mentioned you'd like to try reloading, this rifle would give you the perfect opportunity. I have had the best results loading for the Ljungman using 140 gr spitzers and IMR or Hogdon 4895 powder. IMR 4064 is a good choice as well. There are other powders with similar burn rates as these, they could also be used.

BTW, 140 gr rounds loaded to 2500fps regulate to the sights perfectly. Handloading for this rifle is very rewarding, enjoy.
 
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Glad I stumbled on to this..... I recently aquired a Ljungman. I recently shot a box of Prvi through it. Bought box of the Hornady vintage match the other day. (They were all out of the Prvi) Glad I havent shot them.

jakester, Do you have the info on the Prvi? Is it ok to use? I myself am going to reload eventually I hope, but for now I am just amassing a brass collection.... Thanks...
 
With a slower burning ball powder you have to worry about more than beating up the safety assembly. If the pressure is too high when the bullet passes the gas port you can get premature extraction (the Swedes even considered the M41 ammo a little hot for these and used to oil the cartridges to aid in extraction) which can tear off rims, break extractors and most importantly- rip off the case head when there is still pressure in the barrel, dumping it all into the magazine and action and blowing up the gun. It's happened before.
 
Glad I stumbled on to this..... I recently aquired a Ljungman. I recently shot a box of Prvi through it. Bought box of the Hornady vintage match the other day. (They were all out of the Prvi) Glad I havent shot them.

jakester, Do you have the info on the Prvi? Is it ok to use? I myself am going to reload eventually I hope, but for now I am just amassing a brass collection.... Thanks...

I've ran a few hundred rounds of the Priv with no issues.
 
Prvi specs on 6.5 x 55. http://www.prvipartizan.com/search_a.php
They are the manufacturer who most closely follows the Military spec.

I have all the specs on the original Swedish M41 ammo that your rifle used. In a 24" barrel like the M38, the muzzle velocity was rated at
2510fps. Pressure of 47,682 PSI. This from original documents published in "Crown Jewels."

So, the printed PRVI Specifications for this round are super good!

If you need case info as to dimensions and overall lengths, let me know and I can post for you.
 
Remember, it's not just peak pressure you're worried about. Wether C.U.P. or P.S.I measurements, the pressure gauges only measure PEAK pressure. That peak pressure measurement doesn't allude to how long the pressure curve is or when peak pressure is met along the bore. You are worried about GASPORT pressure. A fast burning powder can have a higher peak pressure rating than a slower one, but will beat a lesser rating when reaching the gasport then the "lower" pressured round. Gasport pressure is what you should be concerned with.
 
Glad I stumbled on to this..... I recently aquired a Ljungman. I recently shot a box of Prvi through it. Bought box of the Hornady vintage match the other day. (They were all out of the Prvi) Glad I havent shot them.

jakester, Do you have the info on the Prvi? Is it ok to use? I myself am going to reload eventually I hope, but for now I am just amassing a brass collection.... Thanks...

I have used the Prvi ammo with no issues. "Thresher" is correct that the AG42B manual called for the military rounds to be lightly oiled. I understand why they did this, but It is definitley not a good idea for several reasons. The Swedes had no other option at the time, we do, as we can be far more selective which powders we use.

That said, Prvi has good brass, and is the correct size in the solid head area.

North American manufacturers ie. the big three...Win, Rem, and Fed, all manufacture 6.5x55 brass that is too small in the solid head area of the case. I believe it has to do with the fact that the machinery they use to produce 6.5x55 is already set up for their 308-30-06 based cartridges so they just manufacture to that spec. However, it isn't correct. I found that the European manufactured brass holds this tolerance much better. Lapua, Prvi, SB, Norma, all produce very good properly spec brass for the 6.5x55.
 
When the M42B rifles first came onto the market, they were anywhere from junk to brand new.

When I bought my first one, it was new. Nothing to indicate it had ever been refurbed or handled. It came with a brass muzzle cover, spare parts kit, spare magazine, leather sling and bayonet/scabbard/frog. Lever, also threw in 100 rounds of surplus ammo. Even though CIL/Dominion were still making it, try to find it.

All of the surplus ammo, was 160 grain round nose cupro nickel ball.

I disassembled and cleaned the rifle completely. It was still wrapped in heavy wax paper and tied with a heavy red cloth band. There was a packing slip inside the wrap, with a small target, stating type of ammo and range it was tested at, along with name of the tech all wrapped up in a thick plastic pouch.

I took the rifle to the range, not really impressed by the length and weight but extremely impressed by the incredible workmanship and finish.

I placed the rifle onto a home made rest, made out of an old tire, filled with an inner tube full of water and a wrap around padded blanket to catch any shrapnel. It was made to test fire surplus and used firearms. A lot of firearms back then, even if they looked good, were grenades waiting for a cartridge to detonate.

I loaded one round into the chamber and pulled the trigger, via a 3 meter string. Everything was fine. Other than the fact it was very hard on rims and dented the side of the case.

OK, loaded up the mag with 10 rounds (legal in those days) and repeated the process as fast as I could pull the string. Again, all went perfectly.

Well I felt OK with the rifle and loaded up another mag full. I was pleasantly surprised at how little felt recoil there was and at how accurate the rifle was. Around an inch at 100 m. This was the same as the factory target, which was fired at 50m and was about 1/2 in.

I then cleaned the rifle completely and went back to the bench. Ten more rounds, very accurate and impressive. Especially with surplus ammo. dated from the forties.

I wanted to see what I could do with it off hand. The thing was front heavy to say the least but with the light recoil, I was hoping for some nice shooting. The first couple of rounds went well. The 4 inch clay pigeons set up at 100m shattered on cue.

Somewhere around the 7th round, my leg felt like I had been hit with a sledge hammer. The bottom of the magazine had been blown off and the remaining cartridges, along with the spring, follower and bottom plate had been blasted against my thigh. The stock was cracked in front of the mag well, the extractor, plunger and spring were gone and the tip of the firing pin was broken off. Other than that, when I replaced the parts, the rifle was fine.

I called Allen Lever about it and in his usual manner, he stopped selling the ammo with the semi auto rifles. He was smart enough, not to sell anymore of the ammo, in case there was an issue with it. THERE WASN'T.

The issues were as mentioned before. The 160 grain bullets and the relatively slow powders were not intended for the AG42B. They were intended for the bolt action rifles and machine guns.

Don't get me wrong here. To this day, I can understand making up special machine gun ammunition but to package it in 5 round chargers for use in a rifle, just didn't make good common sense to me.

It turns out, the ammo was suitable for any of the bolt action rifles and machine guns but not the AG42B or C models.

Mine wasn't the only incident. A few other shooters across Canada suffered similar fates.

The rifles, all came in from International originally and were distributed to dealers from there.

I paid $35 for the complete kit and ammo. All looked to be as new. International, replaced my rifle and kit but not with a brand new rifle. They didn't have any left. The replacement was as new but refurbed.

After that, I only shot 140 grain ammo through the rifle, using a surplus powder that International was selling, called No44. It was a Bofors made powder and similar to IMR 3031. We also acquired several thousand rounds of ammo with wooden bullets and a flake powder that worked very well in 357 magnum handloads. They sold the ammo, powder, bullets of 160/140/100 grains in a package that you had to disassemble and reload. Good stuff but the primers were corrosive. I've still got some of those components around.

By the way, the 160gr round nose bullets had all been pulled and had an indent ring where they had been crimped. The 140/100gr flat base, spire point, bullets were never loaded previously.

As was mentioned, be extremely careful with the AG42B. They are tough, robust rifles that were ahead of their time. They had some issues but if you were forewarned and heeded them, the rifles will work perfectly and safely, all the while, as long as the bores are good, being very accurate as well.
 
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the hakim rifles ,which are built from the same tooling as the ag42 , have an adjustable gas port .

to do this with a ag42 , remove the slot head screw that is stalked into the gas block ( and it you have too , clean up the threads with a tap , then install a allen head bolt with a jam nut underneath . with some minor fitting you can use this to adjust the amount of gas pressure going back to the action .

start with it completely closed off and open it a 1/8th to 1/4 turn at a time till the action functions reliably and it no longer throw brass into the next country .

once things are figured out ,you can run any ammo that is safe to run in swedish mauser
 
I have only reloaded once for mine.I ran 34.5 grains of IMR4895 pushing a 140 grain Interlock, with the non adjustable gas port. Action ran extremely smooth with no issues, recoil was very nice. I did not chrony this round but the accuracy was fine so I decided to stay with it for this gun.
 
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