Air-gun that is not a "gun" but could kill small game.

DefaultAnthony

DefaultAnthony

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I have been thinking about Air Guns and am curious if it's possible to find an Airgun that does not officially qualify as a "Firearm" but could still be used for target shooting in the back yard or killing small game.

I've looked at http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/air_gun-arme_air-eng.htm and to me it seems like they would either not have a "high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 metres or 500 feet per second)" or "a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds)".

Anyone know if that is possible?
 
As soon as you reach the velocity or energy limits it is a firearm. For example (a bb or regular pellet at 500 fps meets the energy limit and is legal, a lighter projectile like an airsoft bb can be shot at a higher fps because it still meets the energy limit. A heavier pellet or bb has to be fired at lower fps or it goes over the energy limit.) As soon as you do something they decide you are not supposed to, it can be classed as a firearm even if it is below the FPS or energy limit specified.ie if someone brandishes a BB gun and threatens someone it can be classed as a firearm. In short if you want to hunt get a PAL/hunting license and a gun that will do the job.Any snowflake neighbor can call the cops just thinking you might have a gun in your backyard and if your city has a no shooting bylaw the police can make your life miserable even if it is a bb gun.
 
Mil Specs said:
As soon as you reach the velocity or energy limits it is a firearm. For example (a bb or regular pellet at 500 fps meets the energy limit and is legal, a lighter projectile like an airsoft bb can be shot at a higher fps because it still meets the energy limit. A heavier pellet or bb has to be fired at lower fps or it goes over the energy limit.) As soon as you do something they decide you are not supposed to, it can be classed as a firearm even if it is below the FPS or energy limit specified.ie if someone brandishes a BB gun and threatens someone it can be classed as a firearm. In short if you want to hunt get a PAL/hunting license and a gun that will do the job.Any snowflake neighbor can call the cops just thinking you might have a gun in your backyard and if your city has a no shooting bylaw the police can make your life miserable even if it is a bb gun.
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False.... Airsoft guns are capped at >500 fps or 5.7 jules whichever is first. you cannot fire lighter bb's at greater than 500fps or it is deemed a fire arm. In the same token it can not shoot softer than 380fps or is considered a replica.

If you are looking to kill small game, a 490fps pistol or rifle with hunting tipped pellets will do the trick out to 25y personally would not shoot further at game). Same goes for bb's ethically not a clean kill most of the time. As for pellets I'd say rabbit and smaller and even rabbit is pushing it but squirt no problem.

Now shooting in your back yard is a grey area and you can be charged with discharge of a dangerous weapon. Neughbors can call the cops if you or your kids are running around with one even if it is in the lower category. Many argue that is why there is a minimum fps limit on toy guns in Canada because it is considered a weapon when over 380fps (good shoot if police do get called and you make a threatening move.) and also if under it is a replica (also a good shoot because you shouldn't have it without a clear frame).

Long story shot, back yard= bad. in the bush=good. Also be aware of your local laws when it comes to shooting small game IE: Ontario you need your hunting license and a small game license to shoot anything.
 
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I would have no qualms about shooting mice, rats, or English sparrows with an air gun shooting at or very near the 500fps limit. If you want bigger small game, then head shots inside about 25 yards on squirrels or grouse with a .22 pellet would be possible. Longer distance or bigger targets, in my opinion, would require a firearm or an air rifle that qualifies as such, for an ethical kill.

Don't forget your hunting license and small game tag, even for the vermin.
 
Foxer2373 said:
False.... Airsoft guns are capped at >500 fps or 5.7 jules whichever is first. you cannot fire lighter bb's at greater than 500fps or it is deemed a fire arm. In the same token it can not shoot softer than 380fps or is considered a replica.

If you are looking to kill small game, a 490fps pistol or rifle with hunting tipped pellets will do the trick out to 25y personally would not shoot further at game). Same goes for bb's ethically not a clean kill most of the time. As for pellets I'd say rabbit and smaller and even rabbit is pushing it but squirt no problem.

Now shooting in your back yard is a grey area and you can be charged with discharge of a dangerous weapon. Neughbors can call the cops if you or your kids are running around with one even if it is in the lower category. Many argue that is why there is a minimum fps limit on toy guns in Canada because it is considered a weapon when over 380fps (good shoot if police do get called and you make a threatening move.) and also if under it is a replica (also a good shoot because you shouldn't have it without a clear frame).

Long story shot, back yard= bad. in the bush=good. Also be aware of your local laws when it comes to shooting small game IE: Ontario you need your hunting license and a small game license to shoot anything.
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Airsoft guns from what I've found fall under the Airgun law and what that means is muzzle velocity must be below 500fps (152.4m/s AND 4.2 ft pounds (5.7 joules) to be classified as a firearm, both must be exceeded not one or the other.
 
Ronan_357 said:
Airsoft guns from what I've found fall under the Airgun law and what that means is muzzle velocity must be below 500fps (152.4m/s AND 4.2 ft pounds (5.7 joules) to be classified as a firearm, both must be exceeded not one or the other.
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That is not true, I'm on my phone and will try to copy and paste the wording later but it does say "or" in all statements. Exceeding 500fps in any way is then a fire arm as is loading a heavy enough projectile to go under 500 fps but over 5.7 Jules. We went through all this with the RCMP when we were laying out rules for Airsoft in Alberta. There were are are still folks that run guns over 500fps claiming the jule limit was all that mattered. However we were explicitly told by RCMP if either were exceeded we could be charged.

Again this goes to all laws have interpretation but do you really want to push the grey areas and go to court to defend it?
 
Your standard air rifles close to 500 fps mark in .177 (with proper pellet) will do the job for small game (squirrel, rabbit, small birds), with no issues inside 30 meters and a good shot. I've been looking at getting a .177 high velocity air rifle for a while, but haven't made any decisions yet.
 
A non-pal .22 would be the best bet. If you were so inclined you could tune it up to 495 fps with the pellets you would be shooting. They would have enough thump for head shots on small critters.

As for the other legalese arguments above (and from the RCMP website):

1. Air guns that are firearms for purposes of both the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code

These are air guns with both a high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 metres or 500 feet per second) and a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds). The "muzzle velocity" is the speed of a projectile at the instant it leaves the muzzle of a gun, normally expressed in metres per second or feet per second. The "muzzle energy" is the energy of a projectile at the instant it leaves the muzzle of a gun, expressed in joules or foot-pounds. Air guns need to meet both standards to be classified as firearms for purposes of the Firearms Act.
 
cartwheel said:
A non-pal .22 would be the best bet. If you were so inclined you could tune it up to 495 fps with the pellets you would be shooting. They would have enough thump for head shots on small critters.

As for the other legalese arguments above (and from the RCMP website):

1. Air guns that are firearms for purposes of both the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code

These are air guns with both a high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 metres or 500 feet per second) and a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds). The "muzzle velocity" is the speed of a projectile at the instant it leaves the muzzle of a gun, normally expressed in metres per second or feet per second. The "muzzle energy" is the energy of a projectile at the instant it leaves the muzzle of a gun, expressed in joules or foot-pounds. Air guns need to meet both standards to be classified as firearms for purposes of the Firearms Act.
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http://www.firearmstraining.ca/airguns.html

This is the wording from actual cases and law interpretation, notice the or's not and's and again this was told directly when asked to the rcmp so we were following the laws. I understand your piece is pulled from the Econ bull item but it is only one piece.
 
Foxer2373 said:
That is not true, I'm on my phone and will try to copy and paste the wording later but it does say "or" in all statements. Exceeding 500fps in any way is then a fire arm as is loading a heavy enough projectile to go under 500 fps but over 5.7 Jules. We went through all this with the RCMP when we were laying out rules for Airsoft in Alberta. There were are are still folks that run guns over 500fps claiming the jule limit was all that mattered. However we were explicitly told by RCMP if either were exceeded we could be charged.

Again this goes to all laws have interpretation but do you really want to push the grey areas and go to court to defend it?
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You have been given 100% wrong information. There are no special rules for Airsoft - they are treated the same as other airguns and in order to be classified as a firearm for the purposes of the firearms act both the muzzle velocity AND the energy must exceed the set limits.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/air_gun-arme_air-eng.htm

"There are two general types of air guns (also known as BB guns, pellet guns, spring guns or air soft guns):
air (pneumatic system), and
spring (spring-air)
A third type, gas (CO2/nitrogen), even though they are not, strictly speaking, "air guns," are subject to the same rules set out below. For purposes of the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code, air guns can be further divided into four categories:

1. Air guns that are firearms for purposes of both the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code
These are air guns with both a high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 metres or 500 feet per second) and a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds). The "muzzle velocity" is the speed of a projectile at the instant it leaves the muzzle of a gun, normally expressed in metres per second or feet per second. The "muzzle energy" is the energy of a projectile at the instant it leaves the muzzle of a gun, expressed in joules or foot-pounds. Air guns need to meet both standards to be classified as firearms for purposes of the Firearms Act."
 
Foxer2373 said:
That is not true, I'm on my phone and will try to copy and paste the wording later but it does say "or" in all statements. Exceeding 500fps in any way is then a fire arm as is loading a heavy enough projectile to go under 500 fps but over 5.7 Jules. We went through all this with the RCMP when we were laying out rules for Airsoft in Alberta. There were are are still folks that run guns over 500fps claiming the jule limit was all that mattered. However we were explicitly told by RCMP if either were exceeded we could be charged.
Again this goes to all laws have interpretation but do you really want to push the grey areas and go to court to defend it?
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To expand a little more on why you are wrong, you need to know why the laws had the energy added to them.
Ever see the really lightweight PBA/zinc pellets at the local store that proudly and loudly proclaim to be X percent faster? That's why.
Those crappy pellets would have put a lot of businesses (donors) in jeapordy of being on the hook as retailers of illegal handguns. You know, all the 490 fps pellet pistols. So they put the energy component in to the law stating that it had to exceed BOTH criteria in order to make it a "firearm" for the relevant sections of the Code.

You really need to do the math. It doesn't buy anyone much. Just a little leeway if shooting really light pellets in a gun that would not have been illegal if normal ones would have been used.

Cheers
Trev
 
I shot hundreds of Pigeons with my Ruger Air Hawk .177 at the farm. These vermin would roost in the horse barns and arenas and stool all over over the place. Culls were nessesary and I found lead flat heads to be most effective.

The ruger airhawk I have is very accurate to about 40ft, never went thru a tin roof and has by and fall taken more birds (animals) than anything in my cabinet. The scope it came with was junk but irons are great.
 
Foxer2373 said:
That is not true, I'm on my phone and will try to copy and paste the wording later but it does say "or" in all statements. Exceeding 500fps in any way is then a fire arm as is loading a heavy enough projectile to go under 500 fps but over 5.7 Jules. We went through all this with the RCMP when we were laying out rules for Airsoft in Alberta. There were are are still folks that run guns over 500fps claiming the jule limit was all that mattered. However we were explicitly told by RCMP if either were exceeded we could be charged.

Again this goes to all laws have interpretation but do you really want to push the grey areas and go to court to defend it?
Click to expand...

Using that logic, every .22 pellet pistol even approaching the 500fps limit is a restricted firearm, since a light 10 grain pellet at that velocity is more than 25% over the energy limit. A 7.6 grain pellet is 4.22fpe at 500fps, which basically puts any calibre larger than .177 in the firearm category if it's close to 500fps. That make no sense.
 
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