Air space in cartridge case using Pyrodex or BP

[lyman54]

I'm starting to load the .45 Colt cartridge and been reading up on the air space issue. I realize there would be a limit but does it have to be compressed with the bullet. Now I know I might be answering my own question from years of shooting cap&ball where it was always compressed but a cartridge gun is new to me. Also using Titegroup but that's a whole new ballgame, 6.5gr of that is a start load according to Hodgdon.

 

[vagrantviking]

If compressing with the bullet you don't want to squeeze it much or you will start deforming the bullet. If you want lots of compression a special die or tool is needed.

The compressed powder will burn more cleanly and efficiently but it's not necessary. If you want a reduced load fill the space with cream of wheat or wads.

I quite like titegroup in my 44mag for light target loads. Just be quite certain that your loading process checks carefully for accidental double charges. Some people prefer bulkier powder to make it easier to catch an over charge.

 

[handofzeus]

I have been researching loads for 45-120 lately and came across interesting info on the substitutes. Black powder for sure needs to be compressed enough to ensure no air space BUT, Triple 7 does NOT like to be compressed. The maximum compression allowable with 777 is apparently 1/10th of an inch otherwise pressure spikes WILL occur. Looks like I'll be using real BP in mine. And as misfortune would have it I have 2F, 3F and 4F on hand but of course no 1F. Off to the bank I go!

 

[lyman54]

If compressing with the bullet you don't want to squeeze it much or you will start deforming the bullet. If you want lots of compression a special die or tool is needed.

The compressed powder will burn more cleanly and efficiently but it's not necessary. If you want a reduced load fill the space with cream of wheat or wads.

I quite like titegroup in my 44mag for light target loads. Just be quite certain that your loading process checks carefully for accidental double charges. Some people prefer bulkier powder to make it easier to catch an over charge.

Yes I will be sure to not have a double charge of Titegroup, very careful indeed. Thanks

 

[lyman54]

I have been researching loads for 45-120 lately and came across interesting info on the substitutes. Black powder for sure needs to be compressed enough to ensure no air space BUT, Triple 7 does NOT like to be compressed. The maximum compression allowable with 777 is apparently 1/10th of an inch otherwise pressure spikes WILL occur. Looks like I'll be using real BP in mine. And as misfortune would have it I have 2F, 3F and 4F on hand but of course no 1F. Off to the bank I go!

1F for the 45-120? Would 2F not be good for that?

 

[RGChris]

A really good filler for reduced intensity BP loads is amaranth seed. This is available from health-food stores. The seeds are hard, round pellets about 1mm diameter, which measure nicely thru a powder measure. They don't clump or compress like cereal fillers, and offer a means of having a compressed BP charge in a partly-filled case.\
CHRIS

 

[handofzeus]

1F for the 45-120? Would 2F not be good for that?

I had planned on using 2F but the more I read the more I want to start with a slower burn rate. I want to avoid using wads and fillers and just want to fill the case and compress. I may even duplex or mix 1F and 2F depending on the final case capacity. I remember loading my BP .44 revolver with 3F and not compressing it enough. It resulted in an embarrassing fart noise and the ball barely made it to the target.

 

[vagrantviking]

1F for the 45-120? Would 2F not be good for that?

I do feel bad for anyone that doesn't have a good supply of what they might need on hand right now. Heard second hand that a can of Goex was priced at $80 at the Brooks gun show this weekend.

 

[Alex McKr]

lyman54: Loading bp cartridge is no different than cap and ball. The powder charge should be compressed a little. About 1/16" or so, is usually enough. Most of the time, simply using the bullet to compress the powder charge is all that's needed. Which is the route most reloaders take. For a reduced charge, a filler of some kind is useful, as others have suggested. Otherwise, the process isn't too complex. As an experienced c & b shooter, you shouldn't have any problems at all.

As for loading smokeless powder: I've had great success with(and prefer), Unique/Universal. Essentially the same burning rate. Either is a versatile performer. Relatively bulky... fills the case well. Low to mid-range loads are accurate, with moderate recoil. Easy to control.

Since you have Titegroup on hand, it also works well. Just keep an eye open for double charges, as others have suggested, and you'll have no problems. Low to Mid-range loads seem to work about the best(At least for me). I found that with minimum loads, ignition tended to be a bit erratic at times. With relatively light bullets like the 200 grainer (Your 6.5 grain starting load is minimum for that bullet)....a firm crimp is necessary. Noticeably sharper recoil, but relatively quick recovery between shots.

 

[handofzeus]

1F for the 45-120? Would 2F not be good for that?

I will see where 120grns of 2F gets me capacity-wise and then start duplexing 3F on top of 2F to see what the recoil is like if I can cram it in there. I really just want to fill the case with acceptable compression. I had shoulder surgery a few years ago and managed to re-tear (not as badly) a year later so I'm a tad recoil cautious....not recoil-terrified but cautious.

 

[tokguy]

Smellie taught me a neat trick for 577 Snider. Thin cardboard, cut to match the inside diameter of the case. It has to be shorter than where the bottom of bullet will be when seating it ( actually will hold it in place to be crimped somewhat).
Basically decreases the inside diameter of the casing. But getting a squeeze on it wouldn't work as well I'm guessing. Drop tube would likely be the main advantage to be had?