All arounder decisions....

J

jedimaster

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Well I am pondering the new gun again and wondering what you guys would recomend...
My criteria are as follows.
Lever Tube fed with a low power scope, ability to take moose, bear and deer upto 200 yards. Most shots in the 50 - 100 yard range.
I am thinking 30-30 is not gonna be quite happy against bear and moose out to 200 yards, so that pretty much leaves me with a 308mxlr, 45-70 or .....
Anyway I am leaning towards a 45-70 guide version with a burris 2x7x32
 
The .45-70 will get it done, but you better do a lot of shooting to be able to hit at the 200 yard line. The trajectory of the .45-70 is such that, it takes good range judging and a bit of practice to hit on target. I shot one for a number of years and loved it, and even could make 300 yard hits on target, but it took a bunch of shooting. You could look at the BLR in other chamberings.
 
I would go with the 45-70in the 22" barrel version. Unless you like the 18", I think the 22" will give the best overall. The guide gun is nice for carry around, and the 26" has a nice feel for shooting off hand. I guess try all three and see which one fits the best.
 
I like the blued/wanut .308MX. You lose 2 inches of barrel, but the 22 inches is adequate for the velocity you want, I'd say, and it has that traditional levergun look. I'd use it on the game you specify at the ranges you want.
I was considering one for myself, and the scope I would put on it is the new Burris Ridgeline 4X20; it's a small 4X scope. The 2X7 would be nice to have for longer shots, though.
 
Well - I kind of think you've answered your own questions. The best choices are one of those two probably.

the 45-70 (handloaded, or factory loads made for modern guns) is only dropping 5 inches or so at 200 so that's not too bad. And it still has lots of moose crushing horsepower at that range as well. But - i think you'd want the longer barrel and after 200 it can drop like a stone. Mind you - hornady is supposedly selling their 'pointy' tube safe bullets as reloading components this year, so you might stretch that a little.

the 308 looks really good - i haven't used it or seen it used, but the numbers look excellent for what you're talking about.
 
The key to the problem are the words "all around". The .45/70 is a wonderful cartridge, but it is not as versatile as a .308 due to its low velocity. My preference would be a compact bolt gun, but if you insist on a lever action, I would forget about the tube magazine and try to find a Savage 99 in .308.
 
Wait for the new Marlin that's supposed to come out in 45-70

mfc_1895sbl.jpg
 
7.62mm said:
I have to have one of those when they come out! Have to damit:D
Click to expand...

Looks just like my XLR .45-70 with a sawed off barrel and a.....a.....fish scaler/backscratcher mounted on it. I'd stick with the longer barrel - makes a substantial difference in velocity and recoil and any handloader can easily outdo the .450 Marlin with the .45-70, plus brass isn't so proprietary (read less expensive and way more available) as it is with the .450's.
 
Why the stupid large-loop lever? I can see the extended base for a scout-style scope (if you're not worried about your #### dropping off from scopign a lever) but that ridiculous John Wayne Wannabe lever has to go. I can see makign it slightly larger for guys wearign gloves, but that one still looks too big to make rapid cycling of the action feasible.

As for an all around rifle, you're really limited yourself with the demand that it be tube fed. A Browning BLR would be much better suited and is available in more versatile calibers. You could get on ein 308 Winchester (not the same a 308 Marlin Express) or, even better, 30-06 which would be a much better choice for moose at 200 yards. Unless you're going to handload your 45-70, as more modern chambering would better suit you. And keep in mind that if you handload a 45-70 up to really effective levels, a 400 grain bullet at 1950-2000 FPS out of a 7.5 lb rifle (or even 8.5 lbs if you include a scope) is going to produce recoil that is somewhere between "lively" and "fascinating". I've got a Browning 1885 that chucks 418 gr cast bullets at 1950 FPS. As best I can remember the load it calculates out to 41 ft/lb in a 7.5 lb rifle which seems to be a low number for the amount of smack it delivers. It is by far the least pleasant rifle I own with regard to the recoil. I'd much rather shoot my 416 Rigby or 458 Winchester off the bench so I imagine the light weight of the rifle makes the speed of the recoil faster, contributing to the unpleasantness.
 
I can't imagine being forced to have just one lever gun, but if I had to pick one to fit your intended use it would be my XLR 444. With cast bullets from 250-325gr, it shoots flatter than my 45/70, with less recoil and hits harder than either the 35Rem or 375Win.:sniper:
 
What about a .375 Winchester - there seem to be a few up in the EE. It doesn't offer any more in terms of trajectory than your other considerations. But it seems like you want something that's just a little more than a 30-30, and that might be the ticket.

RG

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i'd go with the 450/.45-70 (providing you're prepared to deal with the recoil, it's not for everyone. if not, ignore the rest)

don;t listen to the idiots about 200yrd balistics. +3" @ 100 -6" @ 200. if you can't hunt with those number, stay at home.

inside 200yrds the trajectory is just fine and anything you hit will fall like it's been struck by lightening. I've used my .450 to put holes in quite a few animals, in a hunting role, and a guiding "it's going to eat me" role, the results are nothing short of spectacular.

I have a WWG large loop lever on my marlin. seems to cycle very well with thick gloves, but is sloppy with bare hands.

I'd recomend passing on the guide version, they are great pack-about rifles, but don't balance nearly as well as the standard lenth versions. there is quite a difference in the muzzle jump between the two as well, something to consider if you're going to scope it. I'd strongly recomend you look at a Leupold VX1 or VX2 in 2-7x33. you'll want all the eye relief you can get.

I use williams peep sights on mine and don't seem to have a problem hitting game within 200yrds.
 
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BLR in .308. Now you have a modern lever gun that will take game at longer ranges and still be compact, balance beautifully in the hand, and carry well in the field.
(...except the venerable .30-30 Model 94 that still beats them all hands down! Pick one up and feel the way it sits in the hand and swings effortlessly to the shoulder. However, 200 yards is a little far for this rifle on the bigger stuff.)
 
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