Am I asking too much of a factory rifle?

Ryan500

Ryan500

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Well back from a humbling trip to the range today, running my SPS tac 223, 27.4 h335 under 52g SMK, With good results (1"@100 2.5-3.5@300). It has left me wondering what this rifle is truly capable of in stock form? I am trying to get down to 1 hole groups and I'll be the first to admit I am neither a perfect marksman or a perfect handloader so there is lots that is my fault. But is this rifle capable of those 1 hole groups I see on here so very often?

I should add that I think it may be, but until I load perfect ammo I will never know.
 
Well, there are many factors that affect accuracy. Was this your first trip to the range? Was this your first load for that rifle?
 
Had the rifle out a few times, this is the load I worked up last trip, conditions were not ideal for sure. Mostly wondering what these factory rifles are capable of.
 
I don't know if you can generalize to that extent. But given your comment on the conditions, consider that a 5mph wind will move your shot ~1/2" at 100 yards.

There is a very good thread on 24hr Campfire that goes over reloading for long range shooting.

I think that, given your comments of marksmanship, reloading and conditions, your rifle should be capable of better performance. How much better? Due to all of the variables (bullet manufacturer, bullet weight, powder, powder charge, primers, brass and even from rifle to rifle) it is not something you can calculate.
 
precision shooting needs an accurate gun, but it also needs accurate ammo and an accurate shooter. any factor rifle producing 1 moa is doing what it was designed to do. you can get it better with lots of practice and by knowing how to load for it. it is hard to try and master all things at once. I would keep shooting at 100 and play with loads. seatng depth is an important variable in precision shooting, and not all guns like all loads.

i have worked on a few rifles that were used by the mounties and their tactical tems. remington is a good patform but they get better with a good barrel and a good bedded stock. some reminton actions come from the factory pretty straight but some need to be trued up. The rest is up to you and your reloading.

when they call a rifle tactical and price it under a thousand dollars i think they are really truing to sell it to folks that want a proper tactical rifle but cant afford one. in other words dont think that because your gun says tactical on it that it is any more accurate than any other remington.
 
I think your right, maybe just frustrated a bit. Going to load up
69g SMK now with varget and follow Jerry's article about finding a load. I was finally able to get comfy on the bench now with the bipod and my new handy sandbag. Unlike last time!!
 
no free lunch

What you have there is a typical hunting rifle and you are getting typical results for what you paid. Sometimes you get lucky and get a good one, but that is rare.

I've seen Sako varminters punch out some real consistant 1 hole groups, but then that is why they are priced as they are.

The least expensive rifles that I've seen shoot well are Savage, plus the bolts are designed to prevent overpresure from getting to the shooter.(unlike Remmies which do didly squat to protect you if you rupture a case.

If you want one hole groups you are lucky to get them even with a good custom barrel.

The bench rest guys get them because they shoot real light bullets out of slow twist barrels with minimal powder. These rifles shoot bug holes at short range but are a fart in the wind at long range.

Long range guys do the exact opposite... They shoot fast twist 1 in 8 barrels and shoot the heaviest bullets they can find and loads are typically around 1/3 of the bullet weight. They still need accuracy but thats a relative term... accurate at what distance.... At long range the wind will have its way with you so you need a bullet that holds true.
 
After the SMK experiment, try 69 gr Lapua scenars and then try 69 gr Nosler Custom Competition bullets.
One will work better than the rest.
The joys of finding the sweet spot.
 
For .223, I always had better result with 4895 specially with SMK bullets.
Never did a one "true" hole with a stock rifle but, my min distance is 200M.
IMG_3561.jpg
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Benchrest primers do help. Make sure your barrel is free floating
 
The 52gr. SMK is a solid performer and has a great reputation for accuracy. How many shots in your group? Have you tried just H335 or have you experimented with any other powders, primers, cases, seating depths, ect...ect...ect...

You mention the rifle is a SPS Tactical. Is the barrel completely free floated? Is there any flexing of the fore end of stock that could be making contact with the barrel? Are the action screws tight? How many rounds down the barrel at this point? Is it new or has the barrel had a chance to break-in at all? Is the bore clean and not heavily copper fouled?

If you've only minimal experience behind the trigger of the rifle then there's no need to worry about it. How's your shooting technique? Are you consistent from shot to shot?

As others have said, there's far too many variables here to start questioning the capability of the rifle at this point in time. If I were to assume anything here, I'm willing to bet your rifle is more accurate than you are at this point.

Put lots of rounds down range and get some good quality practice with the rifle. I'm sure you'll see the benefits in doing so in short order.
 
Running a bushnell 4200 6-24 50 in Burris rings. I think I am getting close to what I should be for results given the equipment I have. Glad I asked. Will check for free float, find a 69 grain SMK varget load and practice practice practice. Thanks guys.

Better stock and barrel in the future I think.
 
Ryan,

in my oppinion shooting ain't easy. Some people are naturals, but some of us have to try and retry to find a load. I don't know which you are. The hardest thing for me is being consistent in my shooting. Its not reloading (thats relatively easy to be consistent). For me its going to the range time after time and shooting all loads consistently off the rests.

Not much help but thought it make you feel better to know we don't all get tiny groups out of our factory rifles.

Some days you win, some you lose.
 
I had the same rifle, and sent ~4000 rounds through the factory barrel. I had lots of one hole groups and lots of 2 inch groups. This was my first bolt action and it took the better part of a year to get a true one hole group. It's what I learned to reload with too.

I don't believe free floating plays a noticeable role on this gun. I'd get the same groups using a bipod that I would with a rest. Using the pod made the stock touch the barrel, the rest allowed it to free float.

My results were this;
-best group was sub, at 200yd with 52gr Vmax over H335. This load was good at 100 and great at 200, but sucked past that.

-best do all load, 60gr Nosler ballistic tip over Varget, IMR4198 was close 2nd. This load was great at 1,2, & 300yd. 600yd was a little much but do-able. I switched to Varget and it became easier.

-best long range, 70gr Berger VLD's over Varget. I never tried this load under 300 so I can't help there but 600 was amazing, I started shooting 900 with it.
900 was about max for my ability, with this gun and load. I'd sure like another go at it though.

I don't know your experience level with shooting or loading but may I suggest a different approach to your goal. Baby steps. Dont expect all at once, cause that will take the fun out of shooting.

Good luck

Edit..
I wrote " lots of one hole groups", should read, couple of one hole groups, lots if 2" groups. :)
 
Ryan500 said:
Mostly wondering what these factory rifles are capable of
Click to expand...

It varies, widely - much more widely than a custom-built target rifle. Almost all custom built target rifles will shoot 1/2-MOA or less, and if not they are broken and need to be fixed.

A typical good factory rifle might be able to deliver 1MOA, on average, more or less. But there are many, many factory rifles out there with which there is nothing "wrong" which deliver 1.5MOA or 2MOA. By "wrong" I mean nothing that is clearly out of the factory's specs and standards, which they will acknowledge as a manufacturing fault and fix.

There are some factory rifles which deliver better than 1MOA, honestly and consistently. There's nothing at all unbelievable about a 3/4 MOA factory rifle (though they're also not as common as people claim!).

There are even some factory rifles which deliver 1/2MOA, honestly, consistently, and on average. These are exceptional rifles - all the various tolerances and variabilities happened to line up "just right". These are quite rare, but they do exist.

When you shoot a group with a rifle, the result (group size) is a result of the combination of several factors:
- how well the shooter aimed and fired each shot
- how accurately the rifle+ammo is shooting
- whether or not the scope is moving between shots (internally, or in its mounts, etc)
- whether the scope has been properly adjusted and used (zeroing out parallax, for one)

To shoot a 1MOA group, you need to do all of these things reasonably well.

To shoot a 3/4 MOA group or a 1/2 MOA group, there is *much* less room for error in each and every one of these factors.

Before you blame your ammo/rifle/scope, you might want to test yourself - see if you can take a known-good target rifle (say, a rifle that the owner is able to get sub-1/2-MOA groups from), shoot say five 5-shot groups, and see if the groups are closer to 1-MOA (in which case, you now know that it's worthwhile to focus your efforts on improving your shooting technique) or closer to 1/2-MOA (in which case, you know that your shooting technique is not responsible for your ~1-MOA groups with your rifle, so you can productively look at the other possibilities).

If that's not possible, see if you can find a known-good shooter to shoot some groups with your rifle+ammo+scope. If he delivers substantially better groups than you do, you have one answer. If he delivers substantially the same size groups as you do, you have another useful and worthwhile answer.
 
As an economy measure, you can learn a lot about your shooting ability from hours of practice behind a high end .22LR with the right match ammo and high end optics. Start at 100yds.

The economy comes with less powder, bullets, primers, time and barrels. Not cheap, but cheaper.
 
I have a 700 SPS Tac in .223 as well. I think the biggest limitation on these rifles out of the box is the Hogue stock. If you want to attach a bipod, it flexes too much, and it is kind of sticky to ride a bag well on a rest. I swapped my stock for the HS one off a 700 LTR and bedded it properly. Otherwise the rifle is stock. Glass is a Leupold Mark 2 6-18. Rifle is my 300yd varmint gun, so I was more interested in working up a load with hunting bullets. Ended up settling on 60g VMax propelled by Varget. Rifle shoots predictably between the mid .5s and the mid .7s for 5 shots @ 100yds. depending on how much sleep/coffee I've had, wind, sun direction, etc. Haven't tried the 70g Bergers yet, but the rifle does all I need it to do right now so I'm working on other projects.

+1 on using a proper front rest. I find it easier to shoot off a bipod prone than off a bench. They slide and bounce too easily.
 
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