Am I doing something wrong?

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popol

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Hello

I consider myself as a beginner reloader, but I have done a few batches all with very good results.

I am reloading for my hunting gun a savaxis Axis in 308. First time loading for this rifle

All cases have been thumbled, full lenght sized, trimmed with lee trimmer (with my drill) to the same lenght inside chamfered and outside deburred. (With the lee chamfer tool)

My load recipe come from lee manual, double checked on hogdon load data center website.

-the bullets i am using are BERGER hunting vld 155GR.

-powder charge is between 44 and 46gr (under max load) (working up the charge to find what works best)

-SB LR primer

-now is where my problem starts. The load data states that my MIN OAL is 2.775

When I seat to 2.775, and higer the rounds are pretty hard to chamber. Looks like the bullet is already in the rifling.

Also when fully chambered( at 2.775), I cannot open the bolt. It needs a little help with a 2x4 (very gentle).

When I seat at 2.765, everything is smooth and normal. But it is under max OAL

There is not much more room to seat the bullet deeper, it is only about .030 from start of the ogive to the beginning of the casing.(call it a guesstimated measure with my caliber, i do not have anything to make a precise measure).

Am I usig a bullet type incompatible with my guns? They are very long bullet (low BC). Im I making sonething wrong

Should I just back out powder charge a bit and load to a lenght that will make my gun cycle right?

I did not crimp.any of the rounds yet but I was planning to do so.

Thanks for the help!
 
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Why not take one of those bullets and barely seat it in a case.
Then chamber it,closing and opening the bolt very gently.
It should give you the max length for that bullet, for your chamber
 
plenty of info on bullet jump on the net. you are jamming the bullet. increases pressure. ogive measurement is different for each chamber, even if the bullet is the same.
 
Ok, first and foremost you need to proof read your post next time. You list 2.775, 2.275, and 2.265. I assume you mean 2.775 and 2.765? Also I suspect you are talking about OAL, but you say both max and min OAL. It is easier for us to help when your post is consistent and easier to read.

Changing the powder charge doesn't matter for this problem unless you're using a heavily compressed load that is pushing the bullet out after seating.

It sounds like you are hitting the lands at 2.775, but not at 2.765. The fact you need to use a 2x4 to open the bolt would indicate at 2.775 you're jammed into the lands pretty good. It would be best to figure out your exact Max OAL for that bullet in your rifle. This can be done a few ways, the quickest and easiest way I have found is to take a fired case, and squeeze the neck with a pair of plyers just enough that you get a bit of bullet tension but not enough that the neck is out of round enough to not fit in the chamber. Hand seat a bullet into that case, making sure it is extra long. Insert that into your rifle, and while holding the rifle level gently close the bolt. If neck tension is too high you won't be able to close the bolt, if it is too low the bullet will stick in the rifling, so it can take some trial and error to get it right. Once you have closed the bolt, opened the bolt, and ejected the case measure it to see what your MAX OAL is for that bullet in your rifle. Do this a few times to confirm - it sounds like you should end up with something less than 2.775, but not lower than 2.765.

Once you know your max oal, you can load some up 20thousandths off the lands and have at 'er! The fact you are below the OAL listed in the book is not a big deal, particularly in a bottleneck case and loads that are under book max.

45C said:
Why not take one of those bullets and barely seat it in a case.
Then chamber it,closing and opening the bolt very gently.
It should give you the max length for that bullet, for your chamber
Click to expand...

If you are doing that in sized brass the neck tension might be too high and it becomes hard to tell whether the bullet is sticking in the rifling and pulling out of the case some amount as you try to extract it. That is why I suggest using a fired case with the neck slightly bent out of round to hold the bullet.

jimbo14 said:
Have you tried chambering empty brass to make sure there isn’t a problem with your sizing?
Click to expand...

He says they chamber at 2.675, so I doubt the brass is the issue. They're just too long at 2.775.
 
I suggest you seat a bullet as far as it will go, until the mouth of the case is on the ogive edge.

Will this chamber without touching?

If so, the bullet is useable. But, if it is a sold copper bullet, it needs some jump. I suggest you load 1 each of 42, 43 & 44 and shoot as a pressure check, before you start load development.
 
Ganderite said:
I suggest you seat a bullet as far as it will go, until the mouth of the case is on the ogive edge.

Will this chamber without touching?

If so, the bullet is useable. But, if it is a sold copper bullet, it needs some jump. I suggest you load 1 each of 42, 43 & 44 and shoot as a pressure check, before you start load development.
Click to expand...

He said he can close the bolt on 2.765 (I think thats the number he meant at least) and still has about 0.030 left before hitting the ogive.

Also, he said hes using berger bullets, those are lead core aren't they? (I've never used bergers though)
 
Suther said:
He says they chamber at 2.675, so I doubt the brass is the issue. They're just too long at 2.775.
Click to expand...
I had a hard time knowing what numbers he really meant, so I skipped all that and suggested chambering the empty brass. As you said, proofreading is a good thing. :)
 
jimbo14 said:
I had a hard time knowing what numbers he really meant, so I skipped all that and suggested chambering the empty brass. As you said, proofreading is a good thing. :)
Click to expand...

Its certainly not clear, but assuming 2.775 is what he meant with the first number, 2.265 sure doesn't make any sense as the next thing to try. lol (Besides, my book says MAX OAL for 308win is 2.810, so 2.775 and 2.765 are reasonable numbers whereas 2.2-anything is not.)
 
I e seated lots of bullets and found chamber lenght easily.

But if you want ,you can take a dremel and cut a relief in the neck.
Cut from the case mouth down almost to the beginning of the shoulder.
A tip from Ganderite.View attachment 460591
 
Suther said:
Its certainly not clear, but assuming 2.775 is what he meant with the first number, 2.265 sure doesn't make any sense as the next thing to try. lol (Besides, my book says MAX OAL for 308win is 2.810, so 2.775 and 2.765 are reasonable numbers whereas 2.2-anything is not.)
Click to expand...
The fella said he’s new to this, so I’m not going to make any assumptions. :)
 
Suther said:
Ok, first and foremost you need to proof read your post next time. You list 2.775, 2.275, and 2.265. I assume you mean 2.775 and 2.765? Also I suspect you are talking about OAL, but you say both max and min OAL. It is easier for us to help when your post is consistent and easier to read.

Changing the powder charge doesn't matter for this problem unless you're using a heavily compressed load that is pushing the bullet out after seating.

It sounds like you are hitting the lands at 2.775, but not at 2.765. The fact you need to use a 2x4 to open the bolt would indicate at 2.775 you're jammed into the lands pretty good. It would be best to figure out your exact Max OAL for that bullet in your rifle. This can be done a few ways, the quickest and easiest way I have found is to take a fired case, and squeeze the neck with a pair of plyers just enough that you get a bit of bullet tension but not enough that the neck is out of round enough to not fit in the chamber. Hand seat a bullet into that case, making sure it is extra long. Insert that into your rifle, and while holding the rifle level gently close the bolt. If neck tension is too high you won't be able to close the bolt, if it is too low the bullet will stick in the rifling, so it can take some trial and error to get it right. Once you have closed the bolt, opened the bolt, and ejected the case measure it to see what your MAX OAL is for that bullet in your rifle. Do this a few times to confirm - it sounds like you should end up with something less than 2.775, but not lower than 2.765.

Once you know your max oal, you can load some up 20thousandths off the lands and have at 'er! The fact you are below the OAL listed in the book is not a big deal, particularly in a bottleneck case and loads that are under book max.



If you are doing that in sized brass the neck tension might be too high and it becomes hard to tell whether the bullet is sticking in the rifling and pulling out of the case some amount as you try to extract it. That is why I suggest using a fired case with the neck slightly bent out of round to hold the bullet.



He says they chamber at 2.675, so I doubt the brass is the issue. They're just too long at 2.775.
Click to expand...


Hello

You are correct with my numbers, I edited my post, sorry. I have a tendency to mix up number while typing.

In short, my question was mostly " is it ok to go under the publish minimum lenght (in my situation"

Good trick about finding max lenght. I will try that (but I think I have sized all my spent casing) it should be between the calues you mentionned (2.775 and 2.765)
 
Ganderite said:
I suggest you seat a bullet as far as it will go, until the mouth of the case is on the ogive edge.

Will this chamber without touching?

If so, the bullet is useable. But, if it is a sold copper bullet, it needs some jump. I suggest you load 1 each of 42, 43 & 44 and shoot as a pressure check, before you start load development.
Click to expand...

Yes it will chamber without touching.
 
45C said:
Why not take one of those bullets and barely seat it in a case.
Then chamber it, closing and opening the bolt very gently.
It should give you the max length for that bullet, for your chamber
Click to expand...

and I would do that with an unprimed no powder case and keep it as my measuring case....

no fooling around with chambering loaded rounds in the basement....not for me anyway
 
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popol said:
Hello

You are correct with my numbers, I edited my post, sorry. I have a tendency to mix up number while typing.

In short, my question was mostly " is it ok to go under the publish minimum lenght (in my situation"

Good trick about finding max lenght. I will try that (but I think I have sized all my spent casing) it should be between the calues you mentionned (2.775 and 2.765)
Click to expand...

No problem, everyone makes mistakes. I often find myself posting something, then reading it and realizing I had a typo or don't quite like how I explained something. Just something to keep in mind for the future especially if you are making a post like this where the numbers are important.

If you have sized all your brass you can try it with one of those, 45C says he does it that way without issue. If you can't get a satisfactory result that way, a relief cut like 45C suggested above should get you useable results.

Bigbubba said:
and I would do that with an unprimed no powder case and keep it as my measuring case....

no fooling around with chambering loaded rounds in the basement....not for me anyway
Click to expand...

This is a good point. It would be wise to use an unprimed, uncharged case. If all your cases are primed already, thats not a HUGE issue, but using a case with gun powder is a safety hazard. If you accidentally let off a primed case you might get the bullet stuck in the throat, but that sure beats a negligent discharge.
 
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popol said:
In short, my question was mostly " is it ok to go under the publish minimum lenght (in my situation"
Click to expand...

The minimum length you are aiming at is NOT for your bullet, but rather whatever bullets LEE and Hodgdon used. Actually LEE doesn't test or develop loading data but rather just plagiarize other company's data.

As mentioned by others use whatever length you require for the bullet you are using in your rifle. Start at the minimum starting loads and work up carefully.
 
Not doing anything wrong. Perfectly normal situation. Max OAL is more of an indicator of what will for in the mag box than anything else. oal will vary based on your bullet choice and rifle freebore.
 
Bigbubba said:
and I would do that with an unprimed no powder case and keep it as my measuring case....

no fooling around with chambering loaded rounds in the basement....not for me anyway
Click to expand...


I load in my garage, if I have a loaded round to chamber, there is a big hill behind the house (70-80ft high) with many kilometers of nowhere behind the hill.

Closest neigbour is about 500M away (different direction).

I can safely shoot in my backyard, i just dont do it to keep good relation with the neigbours
 
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