Ammonia and copper

powdergun

powdergun

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Hope this is in the right forum if not please move.

I have read about using a 10% ammonia solution for copper removal. So far all I have been able to find is a 18.5% solution at a janitorial supply house. Can I use this stronger solution or will it do harm to my barrels?

I realize that there are many excellent products out there but I am a cheap SOB and if I can make things myself I'll usually take that route first.

Thanks for you advice.
 
Do not use ammonia. It will remove copper but CAN frost your bore with overuse. Use MEA (mono-ethanol amine) sometimes called "odourless ammonia". It is the ingredient found in ammonia-free copper removers such as wipe-out. It is commonly found in tile and grout cleaners from janitor supply stores.
 
If there is a problem with 'frosting'? (whatever that is I don't know) it likely has more to do with the breakdown results (by-products) of the reaction than a direct affect of the ammonia on your barrel.

Could someone jump in and tell me more about 'frosting?'
 
Frosting is the light etching of the otherwise shiny steel bore.

From shooters-choice.com, among others:

"Ammonia has long been a staple ingredient in bore solvents due to its effectiveness in dissolving copper fouling from barrels. But it has been found that improper application of these solvents can result in the ammonia etching the metal in the bore."
 
Ammonia doesn't etch steel. That is an old wives tale as far as the facts go. What it does is leave it so clean it will rust very easily. After using ammonia you must dry and then oil the bore.

Take some ammonia based Sweet's 7.62 and place it on a couple of steel parts keeping them wet with Sweets and try to "etch" them. After a month or two you will give up on it's etching ability.
 
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I've been using household ammonia for a few years now. I plug the muzzle and fill the barrel and chamber, let sit for 20 mins then patch out until the copper no longer shows on the patches. I then oil the barrel lightly and store. I always run a boresnake through the barrel just prior to shooting to remove any oil residue in the barrel. I haven't had any frosting issues yet. YMMV.

-Jason
 
Has anyone used MEA (mono-ethanol amine) as mentioned by Can Am ?

Does it operate the same way as ammonia in terms of its application ?
 
Been using janitorial grade ammonia for a few years now. Love it. This is THE fastest cleaner for copper I know of. Wipe in, wipe out the copper. Will remove even from a pitted barrel.

DO NOT LEAVE IN THE BORE. Just wipe it in. by the time you change patches, wipe it out.

As to the frosting issue, I feel the same way, leave some on the outside of a unblued barrel or piece of steel and see what happens.

Jerry
 
A person should always clean the barrel free of ammonia as much as possible. A light coat of oil - no pooling before firing is recommended.

Some of the testing done with high ammonia based products revealed premature steel deterioration. It was felt that the ammonia based solvent dried the bore too much prior to firing. Hence the recommendation to use a light coating of oil prior to shooting.

Testing high ammonia solvents on 416R or Cr MO at room temp only has results suitable for inert conditions - sitting in a solvent. This is good to know if ou store your barrel in or coated in the solvent. Using the product in a barrel and firing it is a bit more involved then these simple tests.
 
All of this info is great. So from what has been said ( please correct me if I am wrong)

1) Ammonia ( janitor strength ) or high ammonia products work very well.
2) However, the barrel must be cleaned and oiled immediately after cleaning.
3) Do not shoot from a barrel freshly cleaned with an ammonia product.

If I follow these guidelines my guns should show no ill effects.
 
I'm no chemist, but if the Ammonia dries on the metal, does it leave a residue (frosting)?, and if that residue is present in a barrel, would shooting through that residue grind away at that barrel?

JK
 
Jay Kyle said:
I'm no chemist, but if the Ammonia dries on the metal, does it leave a residue (frosting)?, and if that residue is present in a barrel, would shooting through that residue grind away at that barrel?

JK
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If ammonia drys on the metal, the metal may then be suspectible to rusting. I have never seen any "frost" from any commercial cleaning agent. Frosting would be the equivalent of acid etching.

Don't shoot any barrel with residue in it. Residue is an obstruction.
 
Flash rust is a very real concern when using any non oil based cleaners. The 'cleaners' will strip the barrel to bear metal and if you live in humid climates, rust WILL form. So put an oiled patch through the bore which solves both problems, rust protection and removing any residual cleaning solution. Don't soak the bore as it will need lots of fouling later to get shooting again plus any fluid in the bore IS an obstruction.

The procedure taught to me was push an oily wet patch through the bore. Wait a minute or two, then use dry patches until there is nothing visible on the patch. The bore is still covered but with a very light film.

My guess is that the rust formed when ammonia solution is left in the bore is more likely due to the water in the solution. Either way, leaving solvents in a bore for long periods of time is not something I do. That is why I like the conc ammonia solution. There is no waiting and a really fouled bore takes about 10 min to clean. The average match barrel 6 patches.

Jerry
 
Anyone else use aerosol brake cleaner after you clean your firearm? I have been using it for ages. It gets rid of ALLcleaner residue and does a great job of cleaning the chamber. It evaporates immediately and then you follow it up with a light oil patch.
 
Mysticplayer has it right. Water in solution with ammonia is the problem. Ammonia by itself will not damage barrel steel. Pure Ammonia is used as a refrigerant and the piping material is steel.
 
Anyone else use aerosol brake cleaner after you clean your firearm? I have been using it for ages. It gets rid of ALLcleaner residue and does a great job of cleaning the chamber. It evaporates immediately and then you follow it up with a light oil patch.
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I've been using brake clean for a couple of years, works fine. I also use synthetic motor oil for my gun oil, carb cleaner to remove carbon build-up, and synthetic grease where needed.

Jay
 
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