Analysis Paralysis CZ 457s ... Pro Varmint 16.5 vs. the 20 Varmint MTR ..

Munkey1973

Munkey1973

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My a$$ is getting sore from sitting on fences!

Aside from the fact that I am also mulling a Bergara B14 barreled action (as I am a Fan Boy of R700 SA footprints wonderful selection of aftermarket parts )... I wonder if there is a material difference in muzzle velocities between 16.5 and 20 inches on a 22lr ?

I heard many decent reviews in terms accuracy on both versions of the 457.
In terms of their pricing point, they seem to "punch above their weight" -but the reviews seem to favour the 20 Varmint MTR a bit better than the other.

Having been competing regularly in FRT in the past 5 years, I've learned that barrel length adds velocity.
The velocity per extra inch seems to diminish quite a bit after about 28 inches of barrel length on 223 & 308.

Does anyone have an idea at what point does an extra inch of barrel length add little for additional gains feet per second ?

Is 16.5 not that much different than a 20 inch (holding the ammunition a constant) ?
 
Munkey1973 said:
My a$$ is getting sore from sitting on fences!

Aside from the fact that I am also mulling a Bergara B14 barreled action (as I am a Fan Boy of R700 SA footprints wonderful selection of aftermarket parts )... I wonder if there is a material difference in muzzle velocities between 16.5 and 20 inches on a 22lr ?

I heard many decent reviews in terms accuracy on both versions of the 457.
In terms of their pricing point, they seem to "punch above their weight"

Having been competing regularly in FRT, I learned that barrel length adds velocity.
The velocity per extra inch seems to diminish quite a bit after about 28 inches on 223 & 308.

Does anyone have an idea at what point does an extra inch of barrel length add little for additional gains feet per second ?

Is 16.5 not that much different than a 20 inch (holding the ammunition a constant) ?
Click to expand...

IMHO, get the longer one if you plan to do most of your shooting prs-style or off a bipod or bench. Get the shorter one if you plan to actually carry the rifle around to remove gophers from the landscape.
 
From memory 12" of barrel is technically enough barrel for 22LR to get to max velocity. Others more knowledgeable can correct me if I am out to lunch.

I went through this dilemma - I wanted a CZ 457 and I loved how compact the 16" is and I also dont like front heavy guns (I planned to / do use the 457 for off hand silhouette shooting).

In the end my LGS had a 20" so I grabbed it and it has been awesome. I usually shoot CCI Standard (nothing fancy) and I'm hitting a 8" steel plate 8 out of 10 times at 300M and I can make hits on a 2/3 IPSC at 400M (thats with a 30MOA rail, scope adjustment maxed out and using all the holdovers)

Its a lot of fun for not a lot of cash.
 
Munkey1973 said:
My a$$ is getting sore from sitting on fences!

Aside from the fact that I am also mulling a Bergara B14 barreled action (as I am a Fan Boy of R700 SA footprints wonderful selection of aftermarket parts )... I wonder if there is a material difference in muzzle velocities between 16.5 and 20 inches on a 22lr ?

I heard many decent reviews in terms accuracy on both versions of the 457.
In terms of their pricing point, they seem to "punch above their weight" -but the reviews seem to favour the 20 Varmint MTR a bit better than the other.

Having been competing regularly in FRT in the past 5 years, I've learned that barrel length adds velocity.
The velocity per extra inch seems to diminish quite a bit after about 28 inches of barrel length on 223 & 308.

Does anyone have an idea at what point does an extra inch of barrel length add little for additional gains feet per second ?

Is 16.5 not that much different than a 20 inch (holding the ammunition a constant) ?
Click to expand...

It appears there are three questions and the answers may help you decide which CZ rifle to get (leaving aside the Bergara, for the moment).

1. Is there is a material difference in muzzle velocities between 16.5 and 20 inches on a 22lr?
2. At what point does an extra inch of barrel length add little for additional gains feet per second?
3. Is 16.5 not that much different than a 20 inch (holding the ammunition a constant)?

Regarding the common thread in the questions, there are three things that contribute to .22LR MV. Barrel length is only one of them, and it's not necessarily the most important.

As a result, it's a good idea to back up a little.

First, the most fundamental question: What will be the basic purpose of the rifle? Target shooting? PRS-style shooting? Something else?

A second fundamental question, is the following: Why does .22LR MV matter?
 
reg chamber... typical "hunting" accuracy

match chamber... typically, better LR acccuracy. I don't think the 16" is made with a match chamber from the factory?

Solution... get the shorty... and a longer heavier match barrel set up to suit the needs of that application. Odds are the factory shorty will be useable as it comes from the factory but you will likely change everything if building a PRS or other precision rimfire so I don't see the point of paying for factory parts I will not use.

Barrel swap is a couple of minute job.... now you have the ability to cover any eventuality

I have not tested but the 'belief' was that 16" was enough to get the most from rimfire ammo... especially if you are going to shoot subsonic match ammo.

Jerry
 
Two models of CZ 457 have the "CZ match chamber" -- the MTR and the LRP.

Shooters should note that the CZ match chamber is ultimately not what's primarily responsible for accuracy. Individual barrel quality, which can be different between rifles, will be what counts more than anything else. But there's a caveat that goes with CZ's guarantee of 1MOA accuracy at 50 yards: it all depends on the ammo.
 
Thanks for the input everyone... I generally get the sense that MV differences are imaterial between 16.5 and 20 inches.

Turns out I ended up going the Bergara B14 route anyways.... Its a Remington 700 SA platform, so I figured that since that is what exclusively I use for rifles, then I may as well stick to it.

After some unhinged dude created a rant thread about Firearms Outlet Canada,....I finally checked out their site.

They had B14 barreled actions which is PERFECT because I can use some existing pieces here and there.

I don't have to pay extra for stuff that I will eventually want to upgrade out of.
 
It is the age old debate over less time in the barrel over more consistent velocities from a longer barrel.CZ is famous for very accurate long barreled guns, and that is what I buy when I buy CZ. Not many matches won with short barrels because they are not consistent with the garbage ammo we buy.
 
Munkey1973 said:
My a$$ is getting sore from sitting on fences!

Aside from the fact that I am also mulling a Bergara B14 barreled action (as I am a Fan Boy of R700 SA footprints wonderful selection of aftermarket parts )... I wonder if there is a material difference in muzzle velocities between 16.5 and 20 inches on a 22lr ?

I heard many decent reviews in terms accuracy on both versions of the 457.
In terms of their pricing point, they seem to "punch above their weight" -but the reviews seem to favour the 20 Varmint MTR a bit better than the other.

Having been competing regularly in FRT in the past 5 years, I've learned that barrel length adds velocity.
The velocity per extra inch seems to diminish quite a bit after about 28 inches of barrel length on 223 & 308.

Does anyone have an idea at what point does an extra inch of barrel length add little for additional gains feet per second ?

Is 16.5 not that much different than a 20 inch (holding the ammunition a constant) ?
Click to expand...

Zero difference in accuracy, muzzle velocity or anything. Been tested by the guys at voodoo. Second poster had it more or less correct
 
Munkey1973 said:
Thanks for the input everyone... I generally get the sense that MV differences are imaterial between 16.5 and 20 inches.

Turns out I ended up going the Bergara B14 route anyways.... Its a Remington 700 SA platform, so I figured that since that is what exclusively I use for rifles, then I may as well stick to it.

After some unhinged dude created a rant thread about Firearms Outlet Canada,....I finally checked out their site.

They had B14 barreled actions which is PERFECT because I can use some existing pieces here and there.

I don't have to pay extra for stuff that I will eventually want to upgrade out of.
Click to expand...

here is the video, tested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyz3govTtMA
 
I too am struggling with the decision to buy one of two rifles, the CZ 457 MTR or the Bergara M14R Trainer, as you did. (In 22lr )

Has anyone shot both and can weigh in? Pros and cons? I read above that the CZ MTR can be different rifle to rifle. I am new to precision shooting and learning on a Ruger American 22lr right now so any rifle in this new league will be a huge improvement!

Unofficial survey....if you were to spend up to $1000 on a scope for moving into longer ranges, which scope would you go for (knowing that currently, I am at the bottom of the learning curve?)
ohoh might be like asking which hockey team is the best .....:-O
 
ShawnRich said:
Unofficial survey....if you were to spend up to $1000 on a scope for moving into longer ranges, which scope would you go for (knowing that currently, I am at the bottom of the learning curve?)
ohoh might be like asking which hockey team is the best .....:-O
Click to expand...

My 2 cents....Even if you are at the bottom of your learning curve, spend as much as you can afford on a quality optic. Your skills will grow to meet the capabilities of the optic. Make sure said optic is correctly installed on rifle. Nothing wrong with "quality overkill" on any rifle.... but no need for "zoom overkill"

For this B-14 build I will be transplanting my NX8 2.5-20 that was originally on my black rifle that is now gone. The scope quality is over kill which is good.... and the zoom range of 2.5 to 20 is not "over magnified"... and is also good.
Before I bought the NX8 I temporarily used my NF Competition which is normally dedicated to my F Class 308 on my 223 black rifle....... with a minimum zoom of 15 it was ridiculously over zoomed for shooting under 200 yards.
 
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Munkey1973 said:
My 2 cents....Even if you are at the bottom of your learning curve, spend as much as you can afford on a quality optic. Your skills will grow to meet the capabilities of the optic. Make sure said optic is correctly installed on rifle. Nothing wrong with "quality overkill" on any rifle.... but no need for "zoom overkill"

For this B-14 build I will be transplanting my NX8 2.5-20 that was originally on my black rifle that is now gone. The scope quality is over kill which is good.... and the zoom range of 2.5 to 20 is not "over magnified"... and is also good.
Before I bought the NX8 I temporarily used my NF Competition which is normally dedicated to my F Class 308 on my 223 black rifle....... with a minimum zoom of 15 it was ridiculously over zoomed for shooting under 200 yards.
Click to expand...
Thanks Munkey1973. I bought the Ruger and then a Barska 3-9, cheap scope for it. I was only thinking of partridge hunting back then and targets in a pit. Then last year, I started getting interested in longer shooting and the LGS lead me to a Howa 223. I switched out the scope it came with for a Vortex Diamondback but I now know that these scopes are very different than one I might get for the new budget I mention. The guys in the bench rest club are using like x30 scopes or more for 50 yard shots. I was kinda surprised but the way one of the shooters explained it to me last week, the size of the targets they are using vs what they see is very very different than what I would see out of my x9 Barska. My crosshairs cover the bullseye they are picking a part of to aim at.... And thinking that getting a x30ish scope, I would either put it onto my 223 when I start shooting longer with it or at least have learned a little more about scopes.

The only things I am leaning to right now is the roughly x20 or x30 and a First focal plane, and some other of the specs I have been trying to absorb. Man, there is a lot to learn about scopes! Gotta jump in somewhere though. That is why I thought I would do the casual survey thing. When a newbie like me starts looking at scopes, I feel like I might as well throw a dart. Or, accept that in that price range, cannot really go wrong. I totally relate to "Analysis Paralysis"! Great term! Story of my life....;-)

Cheers,
 
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