Annealing question

Airgunnr

Airgunnr

Member
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Location
Durham Region, Ontario
Just purchased an Annealeeze unit and was wondering how often people anneal their brass? I'm handloading all my rounds and only neck size until I have headspace issues and then bump back the shoulder. If someone out there has the Annealeeze unit, how long do you have a 223 case sitting in the flame just to get me in the ballpark. I have tempilaq to check temps.

Thanks
 
Depends on how hot the torch is. I have a Bench source with 2 torches, my time is normally around 4 seconds.

Do up a couple of test cases with tempilaq and start around 6-7 seconds. Just remember to put the tempilaq on the inside of the case neck, it's not supposed to be exposed to direct flame.
 
Remember that you're only annealing the case neck - not the entire case, especially near the case head - can be dangerous.

With .223, I anneal only every 2-3 firings to extend brass life of my more expensive brass (Lapua) and anneal mainly for my bolt-action rifles as opposed to my semi-autos which are harder on brass.

For .223 out of a bolt-action rifle. it's also quite important to bump the case shoulder back as little as necessary for proper chambering, and avoid over-working the neck. Consider a body die for the shoulder bump and a Lee collet die for neck re-sizing and aim for perhaps 2 thou of neck tension (again for a bolt-action rifle, not a semi-auto which could experience bullet set-back due to recoil from a previous round being fired while other rounds are in the mag).

Enjoy the process!
 
Thanks for the advice, appreciate it. When you talk about a body die, is that a full length sizing die? Right now I'm only resizing the necks with a Hornady bushing die using the redding titanium nitride bushings. I also have an RCBS neck sizing die with an elliptical expander which works well but I can feel the case neck being worked a lot more that one. I do have a full length sizing die which I was going to use for shoulder bumping but haven't ran into any problems with headspace yet. The modified hornady case for measuring bullet seating gives slight resistance when trying to close the bolt so I use that to compare it to my fired brass.
Now when using tempilaq, is the case annealed as soon as the colour disappears? Just dont want to cook the case necks.
Thanks again for the help guys.
 
A redding body die ONLY sizes the body and bumps the shoulder - zero neck sizing.

Lee neck sizing die ONLY sizes the neck, it squeezes the neck back onto the correct size spindle in one movement as opposed to the full length dies which actually initially undersize the neck then open it up again to the correct size by using an expander ball on the way out. With this in mind full length dies work the neck more.
 
I had no idea there were dies that reformed the shoulder/body and didnt touch the neck. New to the world of reloading and I must say I enjoy it just as much I do shooting. It's been a great experience learning and I've gained so much insight from reading people's advice on here.
How often do you find yourself bumping the shoulders back? I'm guessing it's another answer that depends on several factors...chamber size from manufacturing, different pressures. Just wondering on average how many times can you shoot a case before needing a shoulder bump?
 
I bump the shoulder back .002" every time. An inexpensive Redding body die can save you from pulling loaded ammo apart that won't chamber if something went wrong and the shoulder didn't get bumper or the case ends up being on the bigger size. You can safely run loaded ammo into a Redding body die.
 
I used to own annealeez.
In my case I anneal every firing.
2 hints for annealeez.

Once the wheels get hot, the casings can slip on them causing one side to get overannealed.
And if you do too big of batches at once, propane bottle gets cold and pressure changes, changing temperature.
In 308 at least, I wouldn’t anneal more than 30-40 at once to counter this.

Eventually got impatient and got an AMP mkll, but the annealeez was a nice unit, for propane.
 
OP, there's some great advice in this thread so far.

It would be helpful if you can let us know the application - are you reloading for a bolt-action rifle or a semi-auto? Sounds like a bolt gun from the thread.

Routine plinking or are you going for high precision?

This would help us to advise on the brass prep process. I view annealing as a "case life extending" practice that I typically apply for precision shooting applications and expensive brass.

Other case prep - such as shoulder bumping and neck sizing is more of a priority, especially with a bolt gun.

Please let us know more about your application so we can focus our advice.
 
Certainly is a lot of very useful information!! I handload for bolt guns only, a Savage Model 12 and a Savage Axis. I only shoot at a range out to 300 yards. No competitions but would like to achieve the smallest groups possible especially with the model 12. I would like to get long life out of my brass since the Nosler cases are somewhat expensive and if that means annealing after every firing so be it.
That was some great info on the Annealeeze. I dont typically load more than 100 rounds at a time. I will keep an eye out for cases slipping on the wheels. I dont usually get a lot of free time so reloading is done in multiple steps over several days. I will do small batches of annealing to prevent slippage. Great advice.
One other question if I may. When adjusting seating depth of a projectile, how much of a movement is needed to see gains or a decrease in accuracy? 0.005? 0.010?
Perhaps I should have called this thread Mike Has Questions. Sorry for going off topic.
Thanks again for the help guys!!
 
Airgunnr said:
Certainly is a lot of very useful information!! I handload for bolt guns only, a Savage Model 12 and a Savage Axis. I only shoot at a range out to 300 yards. No competitions but would like to achieve the smallest groups possible especially with the model 12. I would like to get long life out of my brass since the Nosler cases are somewhat expensive and if that means annealing after every firing so be it.
That was some great info on the Annealeeze. I dont typically load more than 100 rounds at a time. I will keep an eye out for cases slipping on the wheels. I dont usually get a lot of free time so reloading is done in multiple steps over several days. I will do small batches of annealing to prevent slippage. Great advice.
One other question if I may. When adjusting seating depth of a projectile, how much of a movement is needed to see gains or a decrease in accuracy? 0.005? 0.010?
Perhaps I should have called this thread Mike Has Questions. Sorry for going off topic.
Thanks again for the help guys!!
Click to expand...

On the seating depth question - be sure you have a bullet comparator set and good micrometer to take the necessary measurements from a fixed datum point on the bullet ogive.

Then - I would bump the shoulder of a case, and lightly (very little pressure) resize the neck with a collet die so a bullet slides into the neck with some resistance. Barely start the bullet in the case neck, and then chamber (no powder or primer of course), and then gently extract (or tap out with a cleaning rod very gently with the bolt unlocked) - the idea is not to disturb the bullet. I prefer this method to using a modified case to measure the chamber.

Once you have measured the CBTO (cartridge base to ogive) for the case with the bullet touching the rifling lands, I would load a few seated 5, 10, and 15 thou deeper (so there's a "jump" to the rifling) and check performance. Do not seat right on the lands as this can cause a pressure spike.

I also typically only play with seating depth after doing a "ladder test" to determine an appropriate powder charge - or something close, then adjust seating depth.

I've found that 10 thou of jump is reliable in many of my rifles.
 
I check seating depth with a bullet comparator and a mitutoyo digital vernier. I check the first few rounds and then every 10 or so after that. At first I used COAL as a reference and found out very quickly that it isnt the most accurate way to check seating depth. When i establish CBTO I measure about 5 times to make sure the measurements are repeatable. After firing 100 or so rounds, I recheck rifling distance to check for throat erosion.
The reason I asked about seating depth changes is due to the fact that when seating a jump of 0.010 and 0.020 I didnt notice a difference in accuracy. I was just wondering what everyone's experience was in regards to how much movement in seating depth makes a difference in accuracy, whether better or worse. I know a lot of bench rest guys prefer to touch the lands, but like you said I would like to keep the pressures down to add a little longevity to the barrel life.
I dont have a body die to bump shoulder but I do have a full length sizing die that I'm sure for the few times I would have to shoulder bump will be ok to use. Other than that, I use a bushing neck sizing die with the titanium nitride bushing for neck tension. I set the necks for 0.002" tension and the bullets seat nicely inside the case.
Thanks for the advice, appreciate it.
 
You can skip right by a seating depth node going from .10-.20 in seating depth. Lots go right past many good seating depths when testing. Lots of people have good luck starting at .20 off the lands.
Sorry I have not read all the posts but, If you load to mag length, with some wiggle room, then seat 0.003" deeper, 3 rounds each at 300 yards. Do 0.003" deeper at least 6 times. You should see a big difference between groups.
I think seating depth is one of the most important parts of reloading. I use a micrometer seating die, and each round i back the die out .002" and creep up to the btog depth. If you pre measure your bullets, then you may not need to do this. I measure and creep up to be sure I get it where it should be.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom