Another AR Magazine Ruling...

Miltiades said:
With the fear of being called crypto-liberal or something worse (I can't think of something worse but people have fertile imaginations), the RCMP simply apply the same logic that gave us 10 round AR mags. They are labeled as handgun magazines by RRA and presto, can be used in rifles. What really sucks here is not the RCMP (well they suck sometimes too) but the moronic law of magazine capacity! When I wrote to Gary B. about the gun registry and gun laws and told him the magazine section, among others, is simply the act of simpletons that wanted to prove to little old ladies in Montreal that they are tough on gun crime and the conservatives should change some sections, I was told in no uncertain terms that there is "no such strong demand from gun owners themselves!". I am sure that even raving liberals on a moment of mental clarity do recognize that if one wants to shoot up a lot of people, he can carry more mags and mag capacity plays no factor in crime. However, what fraction of the shooting fraternity raised hell for 5 rounders in semi autos or 10 rounders in pistols? This is the problem NOT the dual purpose classification. Why can't S&W and Chiappa knowing that they are dealing with Canadian laws designate their magazine's accordingly, like 10 rounds for the pistol and 25 rounders for rifle? Would that stop the RCMP, maybe not but it makes easier for a way out.

My own two bits
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Except the RCMP is SELECTIVELY following this policy, or at least to the minimum restriction NOT to "pistol."

Look at the B&T TP9 mags, pistol and rifle versions both use the same magazines and yet 5 round capacity ONLY.
 
P90Puma said:
Except the RCMP is SELECTIVELY following this policy, or at least to the minimum restriction NOT to "pistol."

Look at the B&T TP9 mags, pistol and rifle versions both use the same magazines and yet 5 round capacity ONLY.
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Not quite the same.. apples to oranges.

There is no limit on rimfire rifle mags... there IS however a limit on centerfire rifle mags.
 
Interesting, I just received my conversion kit this week. This is the first conversion kit I have ordered. When I ordered the gun and conversion kit I received my registration for the gun. Is the conversion kit registered also, or is it considered a part and will not be registered? I hadn't really thought about it as I considered it a part until I read this thread. Any reply will be appreciated.

Thanks
 
Steyr101 said:
Not quite the same.. apples to oranges.

There is no limit on rimfire rifle mags... there IS however a limit on centerfire rifle mags.
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How is it apples to oranges, it is a "DUAL PURPOSE" magazine, just the same as the chiappa/s&w, and those go to pistol capacity.

Yet the "DUAL PURPOSE" B&T magazine goes to rifle capacity.
 
P90Puma said:
Except the RCMP is SELECTIVELY following this policy, or at least to the minimum restriction NOT to "pistol."

Look at the B&T TP9 mags, pistol and rifle versions both use the same magazines and yet 5 round capacity ONLY.
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Correct... the process for evaluating a "dual purpose" magazine seems to be to evaluate it twice... and then classify it based on the more restrictive of the two outcomes.

That is how centerfire magazines were evaluated and that seems to be how rimfire magazines are being evaluated. It's consistent.

Frankly I have to agree with the RCMP's decisions on this (so far anyway). They are based in law and it's not their fault if the legislation is poorly written. Ultimately it is up to the courts to issue rulings on the grey areas that are "open to interpretation". Until the courts do so we will continue to see many restrictive interpretations applied.

Remember that these things cut both ways... the same law that gave Questar an approved 10 Round LAR-15 AR Pistol Magazine also gives people the ability to use Glock 10 Round Pistol Magazines in many rifles, etc.. Poorly worded laws often allow gun types that were "intended" to be restricted or prohibited to be classified as "Non-Restricted" simply because the original legislation was not worded as well as it might have been.

Be careful what you ask for... nothing says that if politicians start making changes that we could end up "losing" a lot more than we "gain".

Just my .02 cents worth ;)

Mark


Mark
 
Unless I'm mistaken, is the B&T TP9 not classified solely as a rifle, hence the 5-round capacity? I seem to recall there was some discussion about trying to have a version classified as a handgun to allow for a 10-round capacity, which was rejected.
 
Sorry, not sending any money to any organization. Another ban goes through and we were not even enformed of the proposal. Either these organizations don't have the capability of getting this information or they chose to keep it quiet that they failed, hoping it would go un-noticed. I mean a firearms dealer tells us before the big organizations?!?!?someones sleeping at the wheel here.....

There must be some sort of a vote, a bunch of people in a room who make these decisions for us. Should there have been someone representing the firearms community in these meetings? Were they on holidays that day? Hung over? Drawing boobs and #####es?
 
philchau said:
Is there a legal battle that people can donate to on the "legal definition of a variant"?
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Yes.. not sure what the status of the case is at this moment, but there is a thread on here following it. SFRC (Dealer link above) I believe is still accepting donations for the "R.V. Henderson Case"

The case is exactly what your looking for.. its challenging "Definition of a Variant"
 
I'm assuming the conversion upper still works just fine with Black Dog .22 magazines?

So I can run Black Dog mags in either @ 28 rounds.
 
Gotta wonder how many officers at desks and the hours they spent devoted to this ruling that this ties up.....It would be very interesting to get a FOI request in on this and get all printed and e-mail correspondence in relation to this latest ruling and the previous ones. Meanwhile, crime continues on the streets. Imagine if they actually put some of these guys on the street to fight crime.
Meanwhile if the naughty Taliban and evil Al Queda types are planning a jihad attack on Canadian soil, you can be sure they are not going to worry about a silly 5 round limit for rifle mags and ten for pistols. - Can you imagine the following exchange....
"But Amir, we must go to Canadian Tire and get some pop rivets to fix our magazines before we start our holy jihad. We can only have 5 rounds in our AK mags and ten in our pistols. Of course Ali, we'll post pone our attack until all our AK mags are properly fixed to 5 rounds....off to Canadian Tire we go....Hurry though, before the sale ends...."
Only in freaking Canada....
 
Tom_Swift said:
Time to get official word from Magpul if they ever intended their PMags to be used in AR pistols.
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Wouldn't matter -it's not designed as a pistol mag, and is therefore a RIFLE mag in the eyes of the RCMP.

If magpul made PISTOL mags specifically for AR pistols that had a 10 round cap, and just happened to fit into an AR, you might have a case. They don't though, and won't. Plus, Magpul would have to make an AR pistol that is commonly available in Canada, kinda how LAR makes Pistol AR's in Canada, and hence can sell pistol mags to go with their pistol that they make.
 
Swampy said:
\
"But Amir, we must go to Canadian Tire and get some pop rivets to fix our magazines before we start our holy jihad. We can only have 5 rounds in our AK mags and ten in our pistols. Of course Ali, we'll post pone our attack until all our AK mags are properly fixed to 5 rounds....off to Canadian Tire we go....Hurry though, before the sale ends...."
Only in freaking Canada....
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You're forgetting this:

"Ali you idiot, AKs are prohibited in Canada! We must turn them into the RCMP for destruction! No more holy jihad!"
 
canucklehead said:
Wouldn't matter -it's not designed as a pistol mag, and is therefore a RIFLE mag in the eyes of the RCMP.

If magpul made PISTOL mags specifically for AR pistols that had a 10 round cap, and just happened to fit into an AR, you might have a case. They don't though, and won't. Plus, Magpul would have to make an AR pistol that is commonly available in Canada, kinda how LAR makes Pistol AR's in Canada, and hence can sell pistol mags to go with their pistol that they make.
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LAR isn't a company. LAR-15 is a pistol based on the AR15 that is made by Rock River Arms and C-Products makes magazines specifically for the LAR-15.
 
This is all very confusing. Could you hypothetically use a common after-market 25 round magazine in those 10/22 charger pistols?
 
I have heard the Questar started all these issues so that he can sell more Black Dog mags. Seems to have some friends at the RCMP Lab. Think about the LR10 mags.
 
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