Another KB..Viewer beware!

Pretty much every major manufacturer today advertises that their warranty is voided the moment you fire any reloaded or non-factory ammunition in their guns.

Even most of the after market barrel manufacturer say the same thing... yes BarSto, EFK, Lone Wolf, Storm Lake, Jarvis, etc. all talk about how their rifling allows you to use lead bullets, etc. but they also clearly state that use of reloaded ammuntion will void their barrel warranties.

Most manufacturers will go overboard to stand behind their product if you've followed the proper care and use of their firearms (used factory ammo, etc.). Many will go out of their way to be more than fair even when the user has NOT followed procedures and decided to fire reloads.

In either case it's not unreasonable for the manufacturer to want to examine the gun and evidence and come to their own conclusion... and that usually takes time. If you read through that whole thread it appears that after close examination and review the manufacturer did in fact show that the gun does NOT have a problem firing Out Of Battery and that this was NOT the cause of the failure, contrary to the early suggestions and claims.

Cut through all the BS and claims made in that thread... bottom line is

  • The customer decided to ignore the manufacturer's recommendation and use reloaded ammo in his gun (many of us do this too);
  • By doing this the customer accepted that he was voiding his warranty on the product;
  • The customer had a catestrophic failure of the firearm;
  • Regardless of his and everyone else's opinion, there was no clear evidence on what caused the failure until a proper investigation and review was performed;
  • The manufacturer responded by offering to review the evidence in order to draw it's own conclusions on the cause;
  • This only makes sense as the manufacturer would have a liability issue if they failed to attempt to investigate and prove that the cause was not in anyway the fault of their product or their manufacturing process;
  • The manufacturer presented their findings to the customer
  • The customer apparently accepted the manufacturer's findings (whether reluctantly or not);
  • The manufacturer made a good faith gesture to assist with replacement of the failed product even though the warranty had been voided by customer's own actions... this goes above and beyond what they were required to do;

I've witnessed enough KB's over the years... some have been the fault of factory ammo (even factory ammo will have flaws in their production and they'll stand behind it when it does), some have been the fault of the guns, but the vast majority have been the fault of the reloaded ammo that the user had decided to shoot even though they clearly knew it was voiding their warranty. In many of those cases the gun maker still assisted the user with at least partial replacement or reduced costs.

I think most of the manufacturers do a fantastic job of "making things right" when you have an issue with their product.

Just my opinion :)

Mark
 
IM_Lugger said:
if the gun fires out of battery, it doesn't metter if you reload or not...sooner or later someone is going to get a KB....Glocks blew up in the past even with factory loads. ;)

I fired thousands of my own reloads, never had a problem and have no intention of overpaying for ammo.

Buying factory ammo is like paying for ###...:D
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I'm not disputing the fact that factory ammo is capable of discharging out of battery. From FN's view they could have easily denied replacement on the fact it was not factory ammo. However, seeing how FN did replace the pistol I sense that the culprit here is indeed the pistol and FN is capitalizing on this free marketing/publicity by offering a replacement pistol as a sign of "good faith" and to draw attention away from the real issue, the pistol. Either way you cut the cake, stiffing the guy out of a replacement pistol would look poorly on FN.

It has been suggested on several forums that FN's own techs proclaim the failure was due to ammunition failure. Personally I call BS. Note the source of intel and try and explain to me what good could come of FN's own people admitting to the public that their pistol design has issues. Don't sh*t where you eat comes to mind...

TDC

ETA: Oh, and if those who are married think they aren't "paying for ###" you're sadly mistaken. You over paid..
 
Bob Ailes
Customer Support Manager

Hi Bob; I was looking at picking up a new pistol; I'm a long time Dan Wesson revolver shooter, competitive on a local level, and have been in the market for an autoloader lately.The fiveseven seemed like an interesting and innovative gun, and I liked the ballistics of the round.

Like many people these days, I looked for a forum for the five-seven, because not many people on my own forum have much experience with the pistol and I wanted to know the pro's and con's before buying. I found the FiveseveN forum, I also found a moderator; Jake aka fuzzy britches, experience with a KB (KaBoom) caused by his pistol firing out of battery.

His account is compelling, beleivable, and quite detailed; and it relates some appalling customer service and a serious design flaw.

I won't be buying a FiveseveN; I'll stick with Dan Wesson, since they now make autoloaders. I'll be spending more money, and I'm sure the pistol I choose might not be as "innovative", but at least I'll keep my hands. I like my hands, I use them all the time.

thanks for your time,
Bobby ######x.

Email sent.
 
A double charge would have left the casing (or what's left of one) in the chamber due to the excessively high pressure. Seeing as how the casing is pictured being half in/half out of the chamber I would say detonation occurred prior to lockup.

My other concern with the double charge explanation is the lack of damage of any kind to the barrel. One would presume with a high pressure cartridge like the 5.7x28 being double charged that some damage would be present on the barrel. Also, is it physically possible for the case to hold a double charge?

TDC
 
I sat and read all 48 pages of that thread last night.. And in my opinion everything worked out...

Bobby you probably should have read to the bottom...
 
acrashb said:
Apparently FN replicated the results with a double charge. Which tends to suggest a double charge. Any case can be doubled - just pick a fast enough powder.
Click to expand...

As I posted earlier. It is not in FN's best interest to admit the pistol fired out of battery. The fact that FN's OWN techs are the ones who proclaim it was a double charge smells.

A double charge based on pressure with a specific powder is possible. Why would the individual who experienced this event use an inappropriate powder and an excessive charge? My question still stands. Is it possible for the 5.7 case to accept a double charge of an appropriate powder(specifically the powder the individual used) that has a recipe for the 5.7x28 cartridge?

TDC
 
TDC said:
By the looks of it, even with the double charge his pistol fired out of battery. In any case this is another example of why I don't reload. Personally I don't think FN should have sent him a new pistol. If you're going to get sloppy with your reloads, f*ck you.. Why companies constantly feel obligated to reward stupidity is beyond me.

TDC
Click to expand...

Reloading progressive makes it very difficult to double charge. I was concerned about that was well when I looked into reloading.

As a measure of safety I also picked up the dillon audible powder check. It screams at you if the powder is out of line. :D
 
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