Another "new to handloading" bunch of questions

slushee

slushee

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I've thought a lot about the press I want to use to get into hand loading. I have decided (because of me being new AND price point) to go with the Lee Challenger Kit for $145. It comes with all the do-dads I'll need to start loading .308.

I have been wondering if I should spend a little more for RCBS or Hornandy .308 dies. Can anyone give me some information or advice on what dies will do the trick? I want dies that will give me full case resizing (loading for a M14) AND a very solid crimp.

I am also curious, I go to the range, I shoot the cartridge, I take it home. Must I clean this case before I stick it into the loader? Or can I get away with just reloading a dirty case. The Lee Handloading manual says that there is no real difference between loading a dirty or clean case. But I would love to hear your ideas on the subject. I really dont have the money for a tumbler so if I MUST tumble a case to clean it, I will have to save for a couple more months before I can reload.

That should be about it. When I start loading .308, would it be good for me to get my recipie and load 5 at various powder charges and see what ends up being more accurate? (starting at the min charge and never exceeding the max charge from the data of course).

Thanks in advance. I'm REALLY excited about hopefully getting the press and dies tommorrow. I would rather get your advice over the salesman.
 
Your gun doesn't care about dirty or clean cases. There are a couple of reasons we tumble them. It makes it easier to see defects/damage to the cases if they're clean. It is easier on your dies if you're not running a gritty case through them. And last, and probably least important, they look better when you pull them out at the range.

I don't know what that Lee kit comes with, but you'll need a case length trimmer at the very least for case maintenance.

I started out reading Richard Lee's reloading manual as well. He's probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about reloading.....but.....he's also an excellent marketer of his own products. Take what you read with a grain of salt. All reloading equipment is not created equal, and if there was ever a place to say it, it's in reloading.......you get what you pay for. I use Lee loading dies, and I haven't had any serious problems yet. I've owned 3 Lee presses. I've given up on all 3, and I load exclusively now with an RCBS Rockchucker. It was worth every extra penny I paid for it over the price of a Lee press.
 
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1214616415.913=/html/catalog/rlpress2.html#breech

See the LEE BREECH LOCK CHALLENGER PRESS KIT

I believe it comes with a cutter and lock stud to trim my cases after full length sizing (which is something I mus specify when buying dies if I remember correctly). I also have a hand drill? Or can I get away with just twisting the trimmer with my fingers?

Your right about his manual. There is a wealth of information in there, but you really do have to side-step the self promotion :) I did decide on the lee kit and dies because there is no hope in h3ll that I can ever afford anything better. So, for at least the next year the Lee must suffice.

I will be pitching my brass after 4 firings, thus I hope not to have to worry too much about case seperation. I suppose loading the same charge in different brass will change the velocities wont it? Would it be best for me to pitch my assortment of .308 and 7.62 once fired brass and buy all new stuff?
 
You obviously shouldn't resize gritty cases. However, your shooting with a 308 at the range will likely be single shot. So you take each case from the rifle and put it back in the box. Even with care, it's probably a good idea to dampen a cloth with a solvent and wipe the cases.
Mostly, the cases will tarnish and lose their shiny glow. This is what is meant when it is stated to not worry about dirty cases.
Remember, tumbling brass only came into use maybe twenty five years ago, or less. Look at any of the old reloading literature and you will not see anything about tumbling the cases. I reloaded for about thirty years before I tumbled any cases.
So don't get too concerned about tumbling your cases.
 
Hey Slushee, i've thought about purchasing that particular reloading kit as well. Since reloading is new to me, could you let me know what you think of the Lee Challenger kit? Was wondering if i should spend the extra on the RCBS kit? (which is kinda outta my price range as well, unless of course i save a little longer)

But for a $150 it seems like a great (and inexpensive) way to get into reloading for a beginner.

Since i probably live around the corner from you, if you want, perhaps you could give me a crash course demonstration in reloading??? :) Any help and/or advice would be great! Thanks.
 
slushee said:
I've thought a lot about the press I want to use to get into hand loading. I have decided (because of me being new AND price point) to go with the Lee Challenger Kit for $145. It comes with all the do-dads I'll need to start loading .308.
Click to expand...

I use the same setup for the same calibre. You won't regret it.

slushee said:
I have been wondering if I should spend a little more for RCBS or Hornandy .308 dies. Can anyone give me some information or advice on what dies will do the trick? I want dies that will give me full case resizing (loading for a M14) AND a very solid crimp.
Click to expand...

The Lee Pacesetter dies will work just fine. The Factory Crimp Die makes a very strong crimp, strong enough to deform your bullets if you set it too tight !!

slushee said:
I am also curious, I go to the range, I shoot the cartridge, I take it home. Must I clean this case before I stick it into the loader? Or can I get away with just reloading a dirty case. The Lee Handloading manual says that there is no real difference between loading a dirty or clean case.
Click to expand...

Like others have stated, its to save the wear on your dies. I follow the procedure in Modern Reloading, I chuck the case holder in my cordless drill, trim, chamfer the mouths and then clean the case with steel wool. I get real nice and shiney cases this way.


slushee said:
When I start loading .308, would it be good for me to get my recipie and load 5 at various powder charges and see what ends up being more accurate? (starting at the min charge and never exceeding the max charge from the data of course).
Click to expand...

Yes. You may also want to play with the COL, but since this is for a M14 make sure they will fit in the mag.

HTH,

Craig
 
Google Iosso brass cleaner, or just go out and buy some CLR at Canadian Tire. Dip it, rinse it and dry it.
Get yourself some small base dies for your auto loader, that way you know they will chamber every time. Why chuck your brass after 4 reloadings? Auto loaders are a little harder on brass but there is no reason you can't keep loading them until the primer pockets open up or you start ripping the rims off them. At the very least sort your brass by manufacturer. If you are loading military surplus brass which is thicker, I suggest loading about 2 gr less than commercial brass.
 
i'll second the separation of brass by manufacturer, but there's a couple of things i do "differently"- 1 - i don't crimp- when you crimp, , sure you stop the bullet from travelling back into the case,but it can also be rocked sideways in the crimp- i seat just before the cannelure- that way i get a contant pressure thoughout the neck, rather than just at the crimp groove-btw, get the LYMAN manual and see what it has to say about crimping- if i recall, there a section in there on it, the do's and don't, and the PRESSURE PROBLEMS IT CAN CAUSE- some guns will do this, some won't- the only time i crimp is with the 338, which is a known mover
with the m14, you don't necessarily need a small base die- i've got 4 of them, and they all chamber equally well- but again, it depends on the rifle- use the die that comes in the set unless you have troubles chambering
iuse the lee dies, although i've got rcbs as well- reason is the lee uses a one-piece decapper, - i've bent/pulled out/and had the rcbs pin/ stem stick inside the case
2 you don't need an electric drill with the lee case length guage- just use your fingers
the only head separation i've ever had was a winchester case after about 6 firings, and it was nasty- split the stock, locked the breech in the forward position, blew the mag apart, and this was in a REAL M14- replaced the broken items, checked the headspace, and it was good to go-think it was an H&R- i inspect all my cases religiously, and this one showed NO signs of incipient separation- blew a hole in the side just forward of the base- this was back in the day when we could shoot 20 rounders and the real thing leagally- which wasn't THAT long ago- i went on a few of the u.s. boards where they do a lot of practise with the m1a, and the constant i noticed was about 4 reloadings per case- that and the 165-168 rule- i was shooting 180's because it was my hunting load for my other guns and didn't know these guns wouldn't take it- i've since changed - in short, every gun is different , and you gotta play some in order to get the best performance out of it- different bullets, different powders, primers, etc, - before the real thing got reclassified as a prohib, i put 10 years in tinkering- now the only thing i can legally hunt with is a norc m14( not the 305- the previous one) - a big, heavy club of a gun compared to the real thing- and that's all in the stock
about 2 months after i got my first m14, while i was using the old 3 station lee turret press, i ordered me a DILLON 550b- we going through ammo far too fast with the 20 round mags- normally-5-8 mags at a session-my first set up was a rcbs partner ,then the powder measure, and another partner press so i didn't have to switch dies - i switched to the turret to cut down on the space needed
 
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First a BIG THANK YOU for all responses. I believe you all filled in the gaps of my knowledge. I will pick up some CLR today at Cambodian Tire. Secondly, I called Higginson Powder in Hawesville this morning and placed my order. Is it normal to be this excited? I can't even remember being this excited except for when I got my GI JOE aircraft carrier back 18 years ago :D:D

For now, I plan on starting with M852 recipies. I wouldn't mind making some 118LR as well. I'm looking at Sierra Matchking 168 HPBT and 175 FMJ. Anyone know where these can be picked up local to Woodstock or London, ON?

Gylar - I would gladly give you a run down on the kit and the gear. Gimme a couple weeks to get the equipement set up and load a couple rounds to make sure I know what I'm doing :) Then you'll have a great opportunity to test out the equipment before you buy.
 
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i'd forget about the 175 if i were you- they're expensive, hard on the action, and unless you have an armourer's van of spares, chances are the 168-165's are all you need/want anyway- the 175's are kind of "reserved" for the likes of the m24 and other bolts- try"m14 match loads' or just read everything you can on the m14/308 - there's a whole wad of stuff on here, plus waht's on other boards as well-
 
It may make no difference to you, but CLR attacks brass, it's corrosive.
If you must use it, at least dilute the stuff, and for gods sake rinse and dry thoroughly. You don't want that #### in your dies, or rifle.

If you are going to be using the Lee trimmer with a drill, you can polish quickly with some fine steel wool while you are spinning the case.
Even better, wait until you can afford it, and get a proper case polisher. I made my own when I started out, and if you search, you will find other threads here on home made polishers.
 
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CLR is a bad idea, says right on the bottle not to use it on brass.

I use a 60/40 mix of water and vinniger to clean my pistol brass, I'm only concerned about grit but it does a decent job on the other gunk too. Rinse with water after.

Stay away from the heavier bullets (+168 grain) , too much for the action.

Craig
 
"...local to Woodstock or London, ON?..." Matchkings are not cheap in any weight. Goble's, in London or Tillsonburg, list Sierra Matchkings. 155 grain Palma Match and 168 grain Matchkings run $39.95. 175 grain Matchkings(use 'em for distances past 600 yards) run $41.95. All per 100, I think.
Read the manual then do this.
Beginning with the starting load given in your manual, load 5 rounds only. Go up by half a grain of powder, loading 5 of each keeping them separate until you get to the max load in your manual.
Then go shooting. Shoot at 100 yards, for group only, slowly and deliberately off a bench.
Change targets between strings of 5 and allow time for the barrel to cool.
When you find the best group, sight in 4" high at 100. That'll put you on target out to about 300 yards with no hold over.
 
CLR looks and smells the same as Iosso brass cleaner. I have used it on my Lapua match brass without a problem. A 30 second dip and a really good hot water rinse followed by a good drying in the dryer (use the running shoe rack, this is not to be used as a tumbler).
 
maynard said:
CLR looks and smells the same as Iosso brass cleaner. I have used it on my Lapua match brass without a problem. A 30 second dip and a really good hot water rinse followed by a good drying in the dryer (use the running shoe rack, this is not to be used as a tumbler).
Click to expand...

Just curious- how clean does it get your brass? Does it remove tarnish, carbon deposits, and especially case lube?
 
I have loaded hundreds of thousands of rounds of 308 target ammo. Have yet to tumble a case. But my empties go back into the box, one at a time.

For a M14 try 150 gr hunting bullets and 155 gr match bullets. Both are easy on the rifle, and shoot well. Some rifles shoot them the same, and hunting bullets are much cheaper.
 
Lyman reloading manual, great for beginners, simple easy to understand opening chapters.
Your buying LEE dies because they're cheaper ?? RCBS dies are almost the exact same price, bonus to RCBS is they have an allen head set screw to tighten down the lock nut so your height adjustment doesn't change during removal of the die.
Dirty brass DOES/CAN matter, I personally have 2 rifles that don't like dirty brass. 1) 6 PPC, chamber tight enough that the brass fits perfect clean. 2) A 50 BMG, dirty surplus brass sticks and must be removed with a wooded dowl from the muzzel, clean brass comes out easily.

You don't need heavy/expensive bullets for the shooting your going to do. Odds are you don't have access to long ranges, prob. only 1-200 yds best,,,, right ??
155's work fine, that isn't a precision 1000 yd gun.
As for a kit, the JUNK you get in most kits is just that, you,ll find you get what you pay for. It's better to buy 1 cadillac than 3 chevy's, if it takes a little longer buy quality. I started with the lee kit, through most of it out.
RCBS rock chucker approx. $170, bulletproof lifetime press, you,ll only ever need one. Get a trustworth scale/powder measure.
Contact shooter buddys, see what they,ll sell off. Gun shows. Flea markets etc.

What you buy/use will not only effect your accuracy but the health of your gun and your personal safety.

M.
 
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