Another Nice Blunderbuss!

stevejones

stevejones

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I am posting this for a fellow CGN'r RSB. We would like to see if anyone has any information on its history and the markings that are stamped on it. The condition is very nice and the bore appears to be in unfired condition as the machining process marks are still very bold, the breech plug shines like a dime, and the area around the nipple has no pitting.

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Puzzling gun; the wood and the shape of the snail look old and yet the stamping make me wonder if the gun is new. Even more puzzling is that the number on the round part of the barrel wraps around the barrel and if it had been stamped with a flat stamp, especially with the large numbers, the numbers would run out top and bottom. I own a couple of guns alledgedly from South Africa based on numbers stamped in them but the numbers are both smaller and far more professional that the ones in the photo

cheers mooncoon
 
Another beauty.

Looks like some re-stamping has occurred there...mooncoon's comment about the stamping wrapping around the barrel is well taken, good point.

I'm sure you've exhausted Google, I spent some time there too just because these are interesting. Another "time for a paperback" find there.

Keep us posted if you find out anything. A surprising amount of information is out there...Good luck
 
h ttp://www.icollector.com/Belgian-Trade-Blunderbuss_i11871991

Found this:


Belgian Trade Blunderbuss, marked ''PR/EXR/2'', with number on barrel 8225, flared 16 bore, 9-1/2'' partially octagon barrel, one-piece full-length walnut stock, brown damascus pattern barrel, case hardened lockplate, hammer and trigger, with blue triggerguard, and belt hook to left side. Mfg'd 1890-1910. Condition is excellent with light toning to sideplate, minor scuffs and nicks to furniture, minor oil darkening near metal contact points, and light lifting and crazing to original varnish. Action works as designed, blunderbuss shows little use. Est.: $350-$500. Auction Location:
16600 Aston Street, Irvine, California, 92606, United States


At icollector.com
 
The metal does not look like damascus in the photos and seems a strange time to build a blunderbuss. I wonder what criteria were used to decide the date of manufacture

cheers Doug
 
The Liege gunmakers sold very many of these muzzleloading guns to Asian and North African markets right into what we would call the modern era.
Many of these aristocracies forbade modern arms to the peasant masses.
Flintlock & percussion shotgun markets were very strong under these oppressive regimes.
 
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Once they got the fluid steel process down pat, most gunmaking switched to it, even in Liege. But "everybody knew" that Damascus steel was SO much stronger, so the Belgian gunmakers very quickly became adept at creating a Damascus PATTERN on a fluid steel barrel.

What this meant for the customer was that they were getting the best of both worlds, although most did not realise it at the time.

I have several old guns with such false Damascus patterns..... and so do about 800,000 other guys!

As the gun was used, the Damascus pattern wore away under use, leaving the original steel exposed. If you take this one off the woodwork, likely there will be quite a lovely Damascus pattern evident.

If you check the old catalogues, you often will find fluid-steel barrels offered with "fine Damascus pattern". The Adolf Frank 1911 catalogue has pages of examples, also such things a bright RED Trade Guns, again, popular in Africa although a few were sold out here in the early days.
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I have refinished quite a few damascus barrels, including draw filing and sanding them before re browning to bring the pattern out. I only remember seeing one or two barrels with "damascus pattern" stamped on the rib. All of the ones that I have refinished have been true damascus or laminated steel (using the modern terminology). That includes a few which I was convinced were fluid steel because the pattern was so crude. Much to my surprise that pattern popped right back up after drawfiling and browning.

I can certainly see smooth bores being sold into Africa and South America in comparatively recent times but blunderbuss' were purely defensive guns and it seems highly unlikely more than a tiny number were sold past the 1840s or 50s, at least to Africa or South America.

The Bessemer process came out in 1854 and permitted fluid steel barrels. It was not until the 1870s when a process came out to remove the phosphorous from steel to get around the brittleness caused by its presence. Shotgun barrels continued to be made from laminated steel up until the 1920s with the last new manufactured shotguns with damascus barrels being sold I think in the early 30s probably using old stock. That was because of the strong preference for them by sportsmen of the day.

I have several rifles with damascus barrels but all are muzzle loading with the exception of one which is a converted muzzleloader.

cheers Doug
 
muzzleloading guns to Asian and North African markets
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I do not know about africa other then seeing few 20 th century trade guns on the internet but I am a bit of a kung fu movie junkie and blunderbusses show up in the hands of 'local' police forces, warlords and other petty bad guys pretty frequently. Not that it is an indication of historical accuracy but it is an indication of what was available to film makers circa 1960.
Uniformed 'government' troops which often appear late in the storey as 2nd protagonist, antagonist or plot twist almost always sport modern bolt actions (even if you can see the grain in the wood barrels) heck some even show up with vickers guns on the mule cart.


Flintlock & percussion shotgun markets were very strong under these oppressive regimes
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kinda like a country we all know and love. No matter, better a flinter under an oppressive regime then nothing!
 
david doyle said:
blunderbusses show up in the hands of 'local' police forces, warlords and other petty bad guys pretty frequently. Not that it is an indication of historical accuracy but it is an indication of what was available to film makers circa 1960.
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I sometimes wonder at how common blunderbuss' (blunderbi?) were in the early 1800s. Most of them were relatively small and easily stored in a corner and I suspect that many were often kept in the family as keepsakes or curiosities, long after they served any useful defensive purpose. I recall a few years ago, a metis fellow I knew, telling me that they had one in his family. He had no idea what its origin was only that it had been handed down through his family.

I think that a higher proportion of blunderbuss' may have survived, than other more heavily used guns for just that reason. Original ones are by no means common but you do see them and usually in not terribly bad condition

cheers mooncoon
 
I had a Belgian Musket with proof marks that qualified it as an antique although it was relatively newly produced in the 70's. Apparently made from NOS parts! I'm not sure if this would be the case with the blunderbuss in question but...?

Cheers! Steve.
 
I found myself wondering if it was made by Bannerman. He bought up tremendous amounts of surplus guns and equipment and had them assembled into complete guns in some cases. I have a Spencer shotgun stamped Bannerman which was assembled after he bought the company out of receivership and made guns from the unassemled part in stock
It is not unreasonable to say that the lock and barrel are old and really the only reason that I would wonder are the strange letters and numbers stamped in the barrel. I would not hesitate to shoot it (hint hint) but tie it to a tire for the first shot.

cheers mooncoon
 
What happened to the photos of the BB? IIRC for the US bicentennial year in 1976 the Belgians bodged up thousands of muskets out of old parts.
stevejones said:
I had a Belgian Musket with proof marks that qualified it as an antique although it was relatively newly produced in the 70's. Apparently made from NOS parts! I'm not sure if this would be the case with the blunderbuss in question but...?

Cheers! Steve.
Click to expand...
 
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