Another sizing question

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Ivanna

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Hello I have been on all the big forums and I’m getting different answers I hope someone can help with this.
So people are telling me it’s a gear issue others it’s a lube issue. Say I have once fired brass and I put it in my FL die for the first time. I notice that most of the time there is some resistance with the press. This is just one cycle in the die, the press arm goes down then up. Then I measure the case with either a mic or comparator for the shoulder and I notice that the case stretches and gets larger, if that’s the correct term. I then have to put the case back on the press and cycle once more to bump the shoulder down. Sometimes I even have to screw die in a smige as it does not bump enough. It is not just setting the die once and leaving it alone. Many times I measure then keep adjusting die. Don’t even get me started on the neck and runout. This is another post I have to do.

Ok so is this normal. If you go to reloading on YouTube they don’t say keep adjusting die. It’s just one time.
If I do not do this method my case will be headspace will be too large and the bolt will not close or very small and to much space in chamber. Also depending on the brass manufacturer some are harder and softer than others. Lapua brass is best it keeps its shape better.

I anneal before fl die and I use the Redding imperial sizing wax fyi.
I am hoping to get the area 419 zero m sizing die in future once they get the proper shellholder made.

Pls let me know your thoughts.
 
If you are only using one rifle in the specified chambering, you should be able
to set the die once, and that should be good for all your cases.
How I adjust my FL sizing die is to back it up half a turn, then size a case. Try
to chamber it. If you cannot close the bolt, turn your FL die down 1/8 of a turn,
size that case again, and try chambering it. If the bolt still does not close, turn
the FL die down another 1/8 turn and repeat.
Do this until you can just feel a very light resistance as you close the bolt. Lock
your FL die in this setting. All cases you size with this setting should be just fine.

I have been doing this for 50 years with success. No separated cases from over
sizing them. As you have observed, some cases are harder to size than are
others. This should have no effect on your sizing result.

BTW, which press are you using? Any flex will cause you issues. Dave.
 
"Say I have once fired brass and I put it in my FL die for the first time. I notice that most of the time there is some resistance with the press. This is just one cycle in the die, the press arm goes down then up. Then I measure the case with either a mic or comparator for the shoulder and I notice that the case stretches and gets larger, if that’s the correct term. I then have to put the case back on the press and cycle once more to bump the shoulder down. Sometimes I even have to screw die in a smige as it does not bump enough."

you don't mention if the neck sizer is in or not

If your die is squeezing only the body initially, the brass has to move somewhere so brass can become longer
Once the die is set down enough to form body and shoulder to desired length, further adjustment shouldn't be necessary.....maybe
 
I’m using rock chucker supreme also I this is first time I’m reloading for this rifle and I’m using once fired brass from another rifle.
I figured once I fire in this rifle and reload from same rifle this will improve.
I’m guessing that this will happen when I buy once fired brass from strangers.

Thanks for advice what I am saying is that you do have to move die few times when using fl die for once fired brass from different rifles.
 
The brass is all the same make?
Even so the odd time you will come across one or more cases that have more spring back than the rest.
Adjusting the die may be the answer, this will occure with brass fired in a different rifle.
It happens.
Enjoy.
 
I am going to say that you are not setting up your dies properly to start with. I have been using a press and dies about 40 years, and do not recall having to re-adjust die setting once I have it set. That includes using multiple brands of cases, cases fired in my own rifle(s) or in other people's rifles, or when forming one brass case into another cartridge's case. As I recall - it might take some fussing to get it set correctly, but once set, all subsequent cases were run through. I am not a precision target shooter - I do not own any custom made rifles that warrant that - your situation might be different. So, I want the bolt to close with a slight "drag" when bolt handle is dropped - is about as close as I bother for target or practice loads. For hunting, I use either new unused brass or brass that is sized so that there is NO drag at all on those cases. The cartridge cases for hunting loads get run one-by-one through the rifle of interest, without bullet, powder or primer, to make sure the cases fit that chamber the way that I want them to fit. I am sure that precision target shooting guys will fuss a lot more with their brass cases, but is likely they also have all the rest of the gear to show to themselves how that all makes a difference for them.
 
Eagleye said:
If you are only using one rifle in the specified chambering, you should be able

to set the die once, and that should be good for all your cases.

How I adjust my FL sizing die is to back it up half a turn, then size a case. Try

to chamber it. If you cannot close the bolt, turn your FL die down 1/8 of a turn,

size that case again, and try chambering it. If the bolt still does not close, turn

the FL die down another 1/8 turn and repeat.

Do this until you can just feel a very light resistance as you close the bolt. Lock

your FL die in this setting. All cases you size with this setting should be just fine.

I have been doing this for 50 years with success. No separated cases from over

sizing them. As you have observed, some cases are harder to size than are

others. This should have no effect on your sizing result.

BTW, which press are you using? Any flex will cause you issues. Dave.
Click to expand...

This. I go 1/8 turn past slight resistance.
 
I measure the datum on the neck, or as close to it as the hornady case comparator measures. Measure a few fired cases, not just one. Use the one with the longest measurement and set the die so it bumps the shoulder back .002 back from that measurement. usually takes two to three adjustments. If it's .003, I leave it at that. All the rifles I load for are bolt action rifles.
 
Thank you everybody for chime in on my post. It seems that most people end up getting to the same objective: no case head separation by not over stretching the brass during multiple firings by putting as little space in the chamber as possible and also at same time being able to close the bolt without great effort.

There are measuring tools such as the comparator and precision mics that make this job easier there are also the marked die rings, shims and even competition shell holders also the click dies to help but they are not exacetly concise. As I mentioned before there is the area 419 zero m resizing die with proprietary shellholder and also the Eric cortina resizing die with proprietary bushings but both are close to 1000.00.very expensive.

Until they make them cheaper or I get stuck in the rabbit hole of reloading I will stick with my method. As I am getting perfect sized once fired difference manufacturer cases from strangers that fit my chamber perfectly. It’s just time consuming but I love it.
 
It sounds like your die is initially set too high. You're squeezing the base which is making the case longer, and then you're lowering the die and bumping the shoulder? If this is the case, once you get that shoulder bump, try the next case and see what you get. It should be pretty close.

Also, read the book. Set up your dies as described by the die maker. With a new firearm nothing is going to be our of spec enough to be dangerous. Learn to do it right before trying to get fancy. If you're shooting old or surplus rifles then learn to check for case head separation.
 
I assume you are using the cam over feature in the press? Because of this, you are going to face 'lash' or the spring in the system This can vary with each press and how much force is needed to take up the slack.

I avoid this by going metal to metal to determine the 'stop'...

You will just need to balance die position and lube to work around any press related quirks to get the sizing you want. Irregular sizing is almost always related to lube and press.

Good luck.

Jerry
 
I use a Redding body die that is set up for 0.002" bump. To get measurements that are consistent, ensure the cases are annealed and allow some dwell time when the case is in the die. A Lee collet die works well for case mouths/necks.
 
If the OAL is growing it's because the die isn't adjusted down enough - as it squeezes the body, the length grows. Normally, at the lower part of the stroke, the shoulder gets bumped back, but if your die is adjusted out too much, this will not happen. Some presses require a cam-over of the handle to size brass all the way down - others don't. read your manuals to see what is required here for you.

Going forward, the measurement you want to take for headspace is the datum line on the shoulder of a piece of brass that YOU fired once or twice in that rifle. All the major companies make a cheap tool for this - or you can use calipers and a piece of scrap metal or plastic with a hole drilled in it. Once you determine this measurement, set your FL die to hold the shoulder where it is (or at most, bump it back 1 or 2 thou).

Once you set the die, you should be able to leave it alone, except for cleaning. Buildup of wax in your die can cause some sizing issues, so clean it once in a while with brake cleaner, alcohol or acetone.

Good luck - hope you sort it out.

P.S. A body die is great, but you don't need one unless you're neck sizing. A FL die properly set up will allow you to customize your shoulder bump, either by adjusting the die or using a shell holder of the right height.
 
As was mentioned earlier, start with the longest case. When setting up the die initially you should remove the decaping pin/expander ball rod so that you don’t overwork the neck.

The case will grow slightly because you are not pushing the shoulders back and sizing (squeezing) the body. The brass has to go somewhere. It gets longer. Keep adjusting the die down a 16th of a turn and measuring until the distance from datam line on the should to the case head gets shorter.

Be sure to pause for 2 to 3 seconds at the bottom of the stroke to allow the brass to normalize. Be consistent with your time. Shoot for 2 mil set back on your longest brass.

Once you’ve accomplished that you can reinstall the decamping pin expander ball assembly, ( Inside neck lube is important with non bushing die sets )

I try to keep lube off the shoulder of the case and the outside of the neck of the case so that I don’t have to deal with cleaning the die. Of course lune the rest of the case! A buildup of wax on the shoulder portion of the die, will introduce run out as well as other inconsistencies. Ymmv
 
Eagleye said:
If you are only using one rifle in the specified chambering, you should be able

to set the die once, and that should be good for all your cases.

How I adjust my FL sizing die is to back it up half a turn, then size a case. Try

to chamber it. If you cannot close the bolt, turn your FL die down 1/8 of a turn,

size that case again, and try chambering it. If the bolt still does not close, turn

the FL die down another 1/8 turn and repeat.

Do this until you can just feel a very light resistance as you close the bolt. Lock

your FL die in this setting. All cases you size with this setting should be just fine.

I have been doing this for 50 years with success. No separated cases from over

sizing them. As you have observed, some cases are harder to size than are

others. This should have no effect on your sizing result.

BTW, which press are you using? Any flex will cause you issues. Dave.
Click to expand...

I believe this is the best advice you can get. I might add that using new brass fireformed in your chamber would be a great idea. Using fired brass from other rifle's chambers with different head stampes is not a good idea. JMO
 
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