Antique pistol or not?

PaulT

Regular
Rating - 100%
45   0   0
Location
Gatineau-Ottawa
Hi,

I'd like info on what permit is needed to keep an antique pistol that is .31 rimfire cal. or is it considered as antique, I don't know, maybe you guys will know.
Also, what would be the value on such a piece.....:confused:

The pistol is a Remington:

Manufactured by Remingtons Ilion NY
Riders Pt AUG 17 1858 MAY 3 1859

3” Octagon barrel
5 shot straight shaped cylinder, (not the mushroom shaped one)
.31cal (not sure)
Straight trigger
Brass trigger guard
The handle has some brown (look like) plastic cover, not wood

some pics...
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d46/Lion__Heart/revolver1.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d46/Lion__Heart/revolver2.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d46/Lion__Heart/revolver4.jpg

Thanks

PaulT
 
My belief is that it does not need to be registered.....pre-1899 and antique... and no ammo available. No PAL needed to acquire or purchase one either. The only regulation which applies are the safe storage rules...which doesn't make much sense but I do understand that is the case.
 
The FRT shows this as a Remington-Rider Pocket model, chambered in either .31 Percussion (1860-1873) or .32 short RF (1873-1888).

The firearam is listed as Antique in the FRT. Get it verified and keep the paperwork.
 
bussard said:
The FRT shows this as a Remington-Rider Pocket model, chambered in either .31 Percussion (1860-1873) or .32 short RF (1873-1888).

The firearam is listed as Antique in the FRT. Get it verified and keep the paperwork.

Thanks bussard,

Any info on value of the revolver in your book?

Also, should I leave it as is or redoing the blue would affect it's value?

This revolver was found around 1958-59, wrapped in a towel, hidden inside the rear fender in the trunk of an old chev 1939 in Tweed, ON. That's all the info I have about it. I am really happy that it is considered as an Antique but will have it verified like you suggested to make sure and have the paper in order.

Thanks

PaulT
 
Last edited:
Antique class

I am not a lawyer, but this is my 2c worth on how I interpret the laws.

I am going through the motions right now of establishing what is, and what isn't antique in my collection.

From what I can gather, is that an antique pistol, although not a firearm with respect to the firearms act, can be a firearm under the criminal code. Don't wave it around in Canadian Tire asking for 31 rim fire ammo.

What does this antique status mean? Well first off, your pistol does not require to be registered. Further, you do not require a PAL or POL to possess it. You can sell/give it to anybody, likewise, they do not need a PAL to buy it from you.

HOWEVER, pretty well all transportation and storage laws apply. I have been trying to figure out if I can take mine out to the bush with me, keep it at the hunt camp etc. I can, but I have to be careful.

While the arm may be antique, there is a real danger that if you were to be stopped by a police officer, and he found it with you, you will be charged.
The charges for possession will not stick, and you will beat them, but you would have to explain things to a judge in court before you could get your pistol back.

It is legal to shoot wherever non restricted firearms are legal to shoot. Your back forty, in the bush, at the range.

Storage. Lock it up. Treat it like it was a regular handgun, and you won't fall foul of the law. Maybe a little overkill, but way, way better to be safe than sorry. Don't forget, much is left to the discretion of the attending police officer. He will err on the side of caution, if in doubt, he will charge you and let the courts sort it out. If you were on such a charge, it is quite likely that they would visit you at home to find your cache of illicit firearms. They even might confiscate ALL your other legal registered arms. Unknown what they can or can't do when you are charged with a firearms possession offense. Especially these days. You would have to wait until the courts clear your name up before you could apply to get them back. And, oh yes, even when you beat the charge and are exonerated, you will still have an arrest record for a firearms charge that will stay with you for life.

Getting it verified is a good way of having an official piece of paper that specifies it to be antique. You may need that one day.

Transportation, unloaded and locked in a case.

The way that I approach this is that my antique handgun is to be treated the same way as any other registered restricted arm. The difference is no papers are required, no authorisation required to move it around. Shoot in a safe and responsible manner, the same as if it were an unrestricted firearm.

I may be paranoid, but I can see how you could be going about your business, doing everything required by law, and still be charged. Most police officers although have a good working knowlege of the law, are not experts on everything. I have talked to some cops and they know less about the 'gun laws' than I do. But I am going to avoid having to argue about it with me sitting cuffed in the back of a cruiser!

So be cautious, keep it out of sight, enjoy the pistol. Treat it the same as any other handgun, but without the need for paperwork.


Ammunition is not available off the shelf, but there are ways of making ammunition for it. Not something that everybody could do themselves, but it has been done. I have seen special brass cases that have been made up accept a .22 rimfire blank, offset in the face of the cartrtridge base, to act as the primer and ignite the charge. Each cartridge has to be loaded so the blank is to the outside and is under the fall of the hammer. Care has to be taken to get things lined up right, but it does work, and works well!
I don't think that anybody loads this round comercialy. You may find some old stock, but it usualy come with a stiff price tag. Collector's ammo.
Epps could probably track some down for you.

Don't refinish it, even if there is little or no finish on it now, reblueing it will reduce its value by at least 50%-75%. A worn but not refinished pistol is much more collectable than one with a new coat of blue. Nothing wrong with something being a hundred odd years old and looking like it. Your pistol shows honest wear, that is part of its character.
Gently clean it with extra fine steel wool and gun oil, nothing more. Remove dirt and rust, but don't clean it too vigorously, otherwise you will polish the surface an remove the patina that time took generations to produce. That can't be faked, that is why it is important to leave it alone.

Nice find!
 
Englishman_ ca Good post :D It should be a sticky ;)

That would save me and others here haveing to explain all this 3 or 4 times a month to diffrent people and i think you explain it better than i ever did :D
 
dingus said:
Englishman_ ca Good post :D It should be a sticky ;)

That would save me and others here haveing to explain all this 3 or 4 times a month to diffrent people and i think you explain it better than i ever did :D
+1 you pretty much answered all the questions I have, and even ones that I never thought of! Sticky it!
 
>Ammunition is not available off the shelf, but there are ways of making >ammunition for it. Not something that everybody could do themselves, but it >has been done. I have seen special brass cases that have been made up >accept a .22 rimfire blank, offset in the face of the cartrtridge base, to act as >the primer and ignite the charge. Each cartridge has to be loaded so the blank >is to the outside and is under the fall of the hammer.

With 32 rimfire, at least some guns have firing pins wide enough to reach a .22 rimifire centered in the lathe turned case. The turned case has to have a rim which is about .015" or so too thin and the .22 shell chamber done so that the blank sits proportionately high. If it sits flush, the firing pin (usually a blade) will use up its energy on the brass case.
Since blanks can be hard to find, don't try cutting the slugs off of .22 long rifle shells; the priming compound comes about 1/2 way up the inside of the shell. Dingus will probably point out that Hilti shells can be used in place of blanks but at least some of those are larger than .22 cal.

cheers mooncoon
 
Paper work all done..:)

Went tonight to meet with a verificator and as you guys stated, it is considered as antique, and the paper work...laughing, it's just a sheet of paper that says what it is like model, cal, action etc with his verificator # and name. No need of any permit or other paper.
He told me to keep the paper as proof of verification and I should be ok but to treat it as a regular revolver meaning locked at all time. Don't have any problems with that.

englishman_ca

I agree with others concerning your reply, it's really well written and also think it should be a sticky. There is a lots of info for which I didn't think asking and indeed, it certainely provided answers to more questions then possibly asked.

Thanks again to all

PaulT
 
velo dogs are a pretty common class of revolver, in the days of rabies every middle class home had one, so did a few shifty characters.
Epps had fresh .22 velo dog ammo last I heard.

Available ammuniton has absolutely nothing to do with antique status.
 
Last edited:
antique pistol

question antique pistol does not need to be registered.
in the canadian firearm safety course(old blue book)
in the deffinetion of antique in the back of the book,
it states; antique handgunsdo not require registration
UNLESS THE OWNER INTENDS TO DISSCHARGE THEM.
does this still hold true
 
There is no requirement for registration if the owner discharges a defined antique. I believe the only rule that applies is that it must be in an area where it is legal to discharge a firearm.
 
I emailed the NFA a few years ago about registration if shooting an antique. The answer I recieved (from a lawyer) was that there has never been a requirement to register antiques which were being shot, under the old criminal code or under the firearms act post 1995 or whenever it was passed.
With regards to velodog amo, the shells are not too hard to make from 5/16" brass rod.
A final observation is that one of the few good things about the firearms act, is that it defines antique firearms. Even though I disagree with some of the criteria, at least they are spelled out in very specific terms rather than the generalities of before.

cheers mooncoon
 
Am I the only one who does not see any value in the englishman's post?
First of all, if we will be going above and beyond what's absolute minimum requirement in the law for storage and transportation, the next thing we know waking up in the morning - the new more strict laws.
Secondly, the vast majority, I think, of antique owners have them for self defence in the first place - this is a nice way to have a firearm with you that does not need to be registered and does not require ATT. Following englishman's ideas defeats the purpose.
 
Back
Top Bottom