Antique Serial Range of Smith Wesson 44 Russians

[lonapir12]

What's the antique serial range for the Double Action 44 Russians, or the Single Action 44 Russian New Model 3's?

I know in the States, they're recognized as all antiques because the frames were made before 1899.

But in Canada that leaves frames made between 1898-1899 in question. And because many of these were shipped after the frames were manufactured (up until 1913), what is the serial cutoffs for both models for getting an antique letter?

 

[Old Guns Canada]

The highest I have for a 44 Double Action which was approved by the RCMP is at 50###. The highest number of No. 3 New Model known to have been shipped before 1898 is 30392. This is a question you may want to pose on the S&W Forum. They have better information than I do.

 

[fritzhanzel]

Years ago they decided that they are all antique. Unless they changed it. If you become a super member here, you can search the forum for the old discussions about it. I owned a bunch of them. They are all finicky. I never liked them. Had to do work on all of them. Some dremel work on the ratchet mostly, if you screw up, the garbage bin is calling. Still does not guarantee that the timing is correct. Unless you can do it or you get it really cheap, stay away. Or find a real nice one but those are pricey for said reason. I am already getting a headache just thinking about it.

 

[bush1]

Mine has a 3 digit serial number and red hard rubber mottled grips that were only put on the first year of production according to Roy Jinks. It’s a keeper…

 

[Old Guns Canada]

Years ago they decided that they are all antique. Unless they changed it. If you become a super member here, you can search the forum for the old discussions about it. I owned a bunch of them. They are all finicky. I never liked them. Had to do work on all of them. Some dremel work on the ratchet mostly, if you screw up, the garbage bin is calling. Still does not guarantee that the timing is correct. Unless you can do it or you get it really cheap, stay away. Or find a real nice one but those are pricey for said reason. I am already getting a headache just thinking about it.

Ooohh I beg to differ. The No. 3's are the best revolver ever made in my opinion. Most accurate target gun I have ever owned. Reliable, simple mechanics, easy to fix, well balanced, smooth action. And believe me, I have hundreds of other designs to compare them to... doesn't mean they are immune to abuse, though.

 

[bush1]

Ooohh I beg to differ. The No. 3's are the best revolver ever made in my opinion. Most accurate target gun I have ever owned. Reliable, simple mechanics, easy to fix, well balanced, smooth action. And believe me, I have hundreds of other designs to compare them to... doesn't mean they are immune to abuse, though.

My experience with them agrees…

 

[Pete04]

You guys think No. 3s are "better" than a French 1892, Swiss 1882 or a Webley solid frame?

I respect your opinions so I am curious to know, specifically, how/why you find them to be "best revolver ever made".

 

[bush1]

You guys think No. 3s are "better" than a French 1892, Swiss 1882 or a Webley solid frame?

I respect your opinions so I am curious to know, specifically, how/why you find them to be "best revolver ever made".

I have the S&W this thread is about, and a few others you mentioned and I wouldn’t find any one “better” than the others but rather enjoy each for their differences. It a tossup between my 1858 Remington and the S&W as a favourite though.

Antique revolvers are just plain awesome IMHO …

 

[Pete04]

Ahhh!..............understood

agree completely

 

[Old Guns Canada]

You guys think No. 3s are "better" than a French 1892, Swiss 1882 or a Webley solid frame?

I respect your opinions so I am curious to know, specifically, how/why you find them to be "best revolver ever made".

Of course, it's all a matter of opinion. The French and Swiss were made later and incorporate more advanced technology. However, for 1870's, you can't beat the S&W's though. The draw-back on the Swiss 1882 is the fact that they still used a separate cylinder, not integral to the frame. Not a good feature in the field. Loose cylinders and pins can be dropped and lost...The French 1892 solved that part. In general, although of excellent quality, I find the Swiss and French a bit light in front. Balance of the S&W, especially a 5 1/2 or 6 inch barrel is better. Webley's are fine but I think the S&W looks and feels better than a WG. The Webley No. 5 is a close second to the S&W but also uses a separate cylinder. Colt didn't come up with a yoke until 1889, and Webley's first top-break revolver design didn't happen until 1878. In my opinion, the S&W No. 3 can hold its own against any modern revolver.

 

[Pete04]

OK, thanks Chris.
You were saying "all time" and that's what made me wonder.

I was considering the steels they were all made from and, to me, the European metals, of the times, were superior to American steels.

I also think that the solid frame revolvers are, potentially, more robust.

Having said that, I don't have a #3 yet but one is on my short list.

 

[rjf1963]

OK, thanks Chris.
You were saying "all time" and that's what made me wonder.

I was considering the steels they were all made from and, to me, the European metals, of the times, were superior to American steels.

I also think that the solid frame revolvers are, potentially, more robust.

Having said that, I don't have a #3 yet but one is on my short list.

I have the RCMP letter in serial # 53845 for the S&W DA 44 Russian

 

[lonapir12]

I have the RCMP letter in serial # 53845 for the S&W DA 44 Russian

When did you get it lettered / are you able to post that letter for reference?

The S&W catalog says the highest serial number known is 54668, so that would mean almost all of them are antiques. But the FRT shows that some of the 44 Russian ones are restricted.

 

[fritzhanzel]

When did you get it lettered / are you able to post that letter for reference?

The S&W catalog says the highest serial number known is 54668, so that would mean almost all of them are antiques. But the FRT shows that some of the 44 Russian ones are restricted.

I looked up my old papers. I wrote on all of them that according to the CFC ALL of them are antique. I mentioned that before but even an antique letter from the fellow above won't help you. Those letters mean nothing. You can very easily make a fake one btw. Call them until you get ahold of somebody. That's what I did and I posted the answer I received. I was actually surprised that the dealer above has no clue about this.

 

[rjf1963]

When did you get it lettered / are you able to post that letter for reference?

The S&W catalog says the highest serial number known is 54668, so that would mean almost all of them are antiques. But the FRT shows that some of the 44 Russian ones are restricted.

Send me a PM with your email. I will send it by email.

 

[LawrenceN]

I love these antique pistol threads, and especially when Smith & Wessons come up for debate. Having spoken with Chris (Old Guns Canada) on several occasions and having conducted business with him, I find him to be most knowledgeable about antique pistols in general. I was fortunate enough to acquire a mechanically superior .44 Russian DA. From the star with the serial number it told me that it went back to S&W in Aug. 1921 for a re-work. Like most fixed sight antique revolvers, you either learn the pistol's idiosyncrasies or (as I did) fabricate a replacement sight. Mine is a delight to shoot and raises a few eyebrows at the range.

 

[Old Guns Canada]

I looked up my old papers. I wrote on all of them that according to the CFC ALL of them are antique. I mentioned that before but even an antique letter from the fellow above won't help you. Those letters mean nothing. You can very easily make a fake one btw. Call them until you get ahold of somebody. That's what I did and I posted the answer I received. I was actually surprised that the dealer above has no clue about this.

According to the chief technician at the RCMP Technical Division, they decide on the letters for the high numbers "on a case-by-case basis" whatever that means. I would still ask before committing to purchasing one. I went through this with Roy Jinks and Richard Nahas 3 years ago, and it took me almost a year to get the letter for mine, with these experts' help.

 

[Old Guns Canada]

I looked up my old papers. I wrote on all of them that according to the CFC ALL of them are antique. I mentioned that before but even an antique letter from the fellow above won't help you. Those letters mean nothing. You can very easily make a fake one btw. Call them until you get ahold of somebody. That's what I did and I posted the answer I received. I was actually surprised that the dealer above has no clue about this.

I have more of a clue than you think. Here's an update straight from the technical Division this morning: they cannot approve a 44 DA with a serial number over the mid-51### as antique. If you have a letter for one with a 53### number, be glad and keep it. You probably wouldn't get one again today...

 

[serg777]

What is the exact process for obtaining such a letter? As I understand, it involves sending an email to some RCMP department with the model, serial number, description, and photos. Is that correct? My serial number is in the 2###x range, which means it should definitely have an "A" status. Thus, having this letter wouldn’t hurt, and even if it takes a long time, it’s not a rush.

 

[Old Guns Canada]

What is the exact process for obtaining such a letter? As I understand, it involves sending an email to some RCMP department with the model, serial number, description, and photos. Is that correct? My serial number is in the 2###x range, which means it should definitely have an "A" status. Thus, having this letter wouldn’t hurt, and even if it takes a long time, it’s not a rush.

To apply for an antique letter, you must take pictures of your gun and submit them to the technical division. Here are the required steps:
1. take a full-on picture of each side of your gun.
2. take a picture of the barrel with a ruler next to it - from the end of the cylinder to the muzzle - to indicate barrel length.
3. Take a picture of the muzzle with either a ruler across it, or a pair of calipers to indicate approximate caliber.
4. Take pictures of all markings - maker's name, barrel address, etc.
5. Finally, take a picture of the serial number. It must be on the frame, not the barrel or cylinder. It's the frame that's important.
6. e-mail your pictures together with your name, address, and e-mail address to firearmident@rcmp-grc.gc.ca. In your e-mail state the make, model, serial number, caliber, number of shots and barrel length as well.
You will get a response eventually but remember that we mere mortals are low on the priority list and may need to wait a while, depending on how busy they are with law enforcement inquiries. Once you get the e-mail confirming the antique status of your gun you can go on to the RCMP website and register it. Once that is done you will need to wait for the letter. It will probably come as an e-mail attachment which you can print out. This could take from a few weeks to a few months.