Any love here for Swedish or Finnish Lahti pistols?

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daddylonglegs

CGN Regular
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Big River, Saskatchewan
I have recently purchased a rare example of a Swedish Husqvarna Model 40 Lahti pistol, and am wondering how many other CGNers own either the Finnish or Swedish model of these pistols.

In my opinion, they are a superior design to the famed Luger Parabellum pistols. They have the same good ergonomics (grip angle) as the luger, but seem more robust & fool-proof.

My pistol is rare in that the only markings on it are the serial number and a small Carl Gustaf proof-mark on the barrel. The makers' mark (Husqvarna Vaponfabrik AB) has been ground off like the underground pistols the Swedes supplied to Danish & Norwegian resistance fighters during WW 11. Those pistols were all of the large trigger guard frame however, while my pistol is of the older small trigger guard frame. I have been in e-mail contact with Arne Bergkvist, a long time now retired employee of Husqvarna & a gunshop owner & collector of these pistols, in Sweden. It is his opinion that my pistol was one of the quality control units that Carl Gustaf (the government purchasing agent) picked up from the manufacturer (Husqvarna) before any acceptance markings were made on the pistol. He states that less than 50 pistols like mine are known to be in existence, but it is the first that he has ever seen with the makers mark ground off. It is also known that Sweden provided "deniable pistols" sanitized of any manufacturers markings to high ranking intelligence officers (spies). It would be fascinating if Milsurps could tell us their stories.

I am an old fogey, and seem unable to learn how to post pictures, but would be happy to send them to any member who wants to post them here.
 
Before 1998, I had one of each, and found them to be massively over-engineered as befits a pistol that HAS to work in extreme conditions found in Scandinavia. Both of mine were money-earners in our Wednesday afternoon shooting session on base, and over the twenty-something years I owned them [they came as a boxed pair - v. nice] nothing ever broke.

tac
 
Seeing as they use a completely different action than the Parabellum pistols there really isn't much to compare. Their action is more akin to a Mauser broomhandle than anything else out there.

I've had a couple of them. One Finn and one Swede. The Finn wasn't as nicely finished as the Swede but that wasn't surprising. They were both OK as far as function, ergonomics and accuracy went. A lot of them came into North America a few years back and they were quite reasonably priced. There were also lots of accessories available for them such as holsters and magazines new in wrap. Tradex might still have some, along with loading tools.

They did have some issues with the receivers and bolts cracking during WWII. Supposedly this only happened with submachinegun ammo. After WWII the pistols were refitted with heavier receivers/bolts so it's unlikely you will ever have any issues.

The pistols are tough and made to operate under extreme conditions.

I sort of wish I hadn't sold mine but they went up so quickly in price and I wasn't taking them out to the range enough sooooooo
 
daddylonglegs said:
It is his opinion that my pistol was one of the quality control units that Carl Gustaf (the government purchasing agent) picked up from the manufacturer (Husqvarna) before any acceptance markings were made on the pistol. He states that less than 50 pistols like mine are known to be in existence, but it is the first that he has ever seen with the makers mark ground off. It is also known that Sweden provided "deniable pistols" sanitized of any manufacturers markings to high ranking intelligence officers (spies). It would be fascinating if Milsurps could tell us their stories.
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It's confusing. If markings are absent then I can understand theory about being QC unit or "neutral gun". But markings can't be removed from handgun with absent markings. So I don't see any correlation here. "Neutral guns" had no factory rollmark and no logo on grips. If you have something ground off - then how can you be sure it was not done by Swedish or Canadian Bubba to fake "neutral gun".
 
I had a Swedish Lahti and with gloves on it was a nice pistol to shoot.

The accelerator was an interesting design touch for reliability.

Two Finnish ones showed up at the Chilliwack show last year and were priced in the $1,500.00 range.
 
Have a couple of the SA marked early L-35 Finnish Lahti pistols in my collection, generally you will find many with the Valmet marked slide but few with the early cartridge indicator. Bearhunter is right, action is more like the Mauser C-96 than the Luger design.

Lots of cheap knockoffs on the market also so anyone contemplating a purchase should do some homework, after Russia overtook Finland post winter war part of the agreement along with loss of territory was that the designer of the Finnish Lahti could not design anymore firearms or he would be dealt with by Stalins regime.

As for the Swedish Lahti not right up on these ones, have looked at a few and owned a few holsters in the past, they look to be robust in design but also a very clumsy looking sidearm. Yes the blocks in the slide had a potential to crack with the submachine gun ammo, I suppose this is the reason that very few early Lahti's have survived intact.

Jan Still the renowned author from Alaska has stated in his beautiful works on Axis pistols that very few original SA L-35 are in collections today, I believe that the Swedish Husqvarna pistol has a better collector fraternity than the recent round of FAKE Valmet stamped Lahti' pistols
 
Excellent post Horilka, your comments are well thought out and make perfect sense to this old collector, been in this game a long time and any red-flag is a concern. You want to start delving into reworked pistols and bona fide fakes just start following Imperial German navy lugers.

The forgers will take 1900/1906 commercial lugers and turn them into boosted commercial and military accepted navy lugers, they grind the chambers of previous markings and the only way to tell is an acid test which will bugger up the blue unless already reblued so that is out. Serious collectors carefully examine and mic the chamber.

Not trying to diss the original poster of this topic but quality collector firearms need a good eye to spot the fakes and this does not happen overnight, do your homework gentlemen and ladies.
 
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Personally I am not that impressed by the Swedish ones, the fact that a nation in peacetime has to bring back the previous service arm (the M1907) in the 70s and 80s due to them breaking in service says all that needs to be said.

The Luger never had these issues, and as far as it goes is a effective combat pistol, just expensive to produce.
 
Horilka said:
It's confusing. If markings are absent then I can understand theory about being QC unit or "neutral gun". But markings can't be removed from handgun with absent markings. So I don't see any correlation here. "Neutral guns" had no factory rollmark and no logo on grips. If you have something ground off - then how can you be sure it was not done by Swedish or Canadian Bubba to fake "neutral gun".
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The only mark that was ground off was the maker's mark (Husqvarna). The marks which are missing are any military acceptance marks which should be on the rear of the pistol. Not an attempt to fake a "neutral" pistol by "Bubba" as serial # is 4 digits indicating 1942 production & it is the small trigger guard of the earlier guns. All of the Neutral pistols had 5 digit serial numbers & were of the large trigger guard type. Also it appears that grinding the maker's mark off happened prior to blueing, which appears original. I got my information from a Swedish expert on these pistols, and a former long-time employee of Husqvarna who has access to old factory serial number records. He also claims that there are some inaccuracies in Peter Rasmussen"s article on these pistols in Forgotten Weapons.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Personally I am not that impressed by the Swedish ones, the fact that a nation in peacetime has to bring back the previous service arm (the M1907) in the 70s and 80s due to them breaking in service says all that needs to be said.

The Luger never had these issues, and as far as it goes is a effective combat pistol, just expensive to produce.
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The only Lahti pistols that broke were those fired with sub-machine gun ammo, loaded considerably hotter than regular pistol ammo. This was also due to the fact that Sweden was short of the proper high tensile nickel steel at the time Lahti's were being produced, and the receivers were made of lesser quality steel. Is there any information on Lugers being extensively fired with high pressure sub-machine ammo?
 
So using subpar materials made the pistol weaker, which still proves my point on the Swedish pistols.

Lugers served for many decades in many different nations all over the world and I am sure were fed all sorts of different quality of ammo. The fact there is no written issues due to the quality of ammo used in them speaks for itself.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
So using subpar materials made the pistol weaker, which still proves my point on the Swedish pistols.

Lugers served for many decades in many different nations all over the world and I am sure were fed all sorts of different quality of ammo. The fact there is no written issues due to the quality of ammo used in them speaks for itself.
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There are all sorts of issues with Parabellum pistols when it comes to proper ammo. They have a very definite pressure range to operate within to function reliably without toggle damage.

The Finns used their 1923 Parabellums right into the 70s and 80s according to Purple that saw them issued to either NATO or UN troops in the field.
 
Their is also a weak point built into the Lahti's where the block fits, this is generally where they crack. As to finnish lugers they are generally considered to be quality firearms similar to the late war BYF 42, 30 plus years did wonders to enhance steel quality. 1900 to 1939 give or take a few.

As to sub machine gun ammo being hotter and causing damage--ya most likely did happen in many 9mm pistols of the day. Breakage as opposed to be short of ammo would likely not be an issue to a soldier in battle.

The early FN Hi-powers also experienced breakage, however on our side of the Atlantic Inglis got it right-very strong manufacturing, most likely better steel as they are copies of the Belgian P-35
 
Below are OP pictures he sent to me.
Unfortunately hard to say anything with these pictures. They are to small to make any conclusions on serials and absence of markings.















 
It would appear odd that if a firearm had the Manufactures logo ground off for various reasons known to them only then why leave the national emblem of the barrel crown on the firearm and no apparent defacing of the grip emblems unless of course the grips were changed later in life. The Germans did on some late CZ-27 pistols have the top of the slide address ground off in an obscure attempt to thwart the allies to hide the fact side arms were still being manufactured in Prague.

Also we have all heard about lunchbox specials being smuggled out of factories either by the workers or staff------no proof either way except for the absence of serialization.

Germany's rearmament also utilized codes on the Lugers as in K and G dates up until 1936 when Hitler threw out the Versailles Treaty and begun openly developing armament. Not sure of Germany's methodology here as a luger is still a Luger even if it had a Z on the chamber.

One thing to be sure is to always keep an open mind in collecting and view constructive criticism as a fact finding mission not a slam on another collectors wares.
 
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