Anyone actually shoot 168gn bullets out to 1k ?

A

AKD

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I've only used 178's in .308 and just now finished a 175smk load to take out this summer. My variety is low for 1k

Everyone says the 168 looses RPM and tumbles.

Wondering if anyone can say they have actually done it?

I've used Remington 168 match ammo at 800y gongs with good success. How much speed do they really loose in 200m
 
IIRC, was at Mons Range at Borden doing target butt duty and somebody was shooting 168gr Sierra Intl MK's @ 1000yds. Two bullets hit the target sideways and the rest wizzed low, high, left or right, but not on target. I think they were intended to 600yds only.
 
I have tried it and did not have any tumbling issues however they lost quite a bit of accuracy so maybe they were starting to destabilize. I prefer 175 gr berger vlds for longrange shooting but they are not easy to find. Oh and the 168 gr bullets I tried were the hornaday Amax dist was actually 1000yds not 1K
 
I've taken them out to 900M at the Homestead Range and they worked. Have gone further at higher elevations as well. Other bullets have performed better, but in the right areas ie. higher elevations they will do the job.
 
The conventional wisdom is that the 168gr SMK rapidly looses stability after 600. It has been shot accurately further ( see above ) but, in the main, longer accurate shooting is best performed with the 175 gr or heavier pill.
 
It is only the 168 Sierra MK with a known stability issue.

I have shot the plain jane Hornady 168 match bullets beyond 1K and they worked fine.
 
The Sierra 168 does not lose stabilty at long range. It just looks that way.

It does lose velocity, because it has a rather abrupt boat tail. It was designed as a cheap 300 metre bullet. Long range was not intent. In those days the 180 and 190 had the long boattails for long range. The original Sierra 168s were FMJ, not HP. I still have some of them.

A bullet spins so fast it is a gyro. So when it comes down at a steep angle (low velocity and long range) it is still pointed up. As a result, it makes weird cuts in the target.

To make it work at long range, all you need is lots of velocity. A 300 Mag does well with them, as does a 308W wth 2 scoops of powder. The Sierra 175 is a 168 with a long range boat tail. A much better bulllet.
 
"...Bottom line: Trying to use a 168 SMK from a .308 at *true* long range is a well-documented strategic error and (is) to be avoided."

E. Shell


I guess one can take the position that it is worth experimentation to buck the collective wisdom of many, or you can apply your efforts towards known winning combinations.
 
Hi AKD, the standard wisdom is that Sierra 168s (specifically that bullet) fired from a .308 can go all to hell somewhere between 900 and 1000 yards. There is a lot of experience out there to back this up, and it is good advice to use a different bullet for 1000 yard shooting (e.g. the Sierra 175, any of the 155s, a Berger 168 VLD or Hornady 168 Amax, etc).

But you ask if anybody has actually done it. I did it at the end of the season of my first year shooting, because I wanted to see the effect for myself ("168s fall apart at 1000"). I was using my 1-14" twist .308 target rifle with a 30" barrel. It was autumn (October) and the air was cool. Range elevation was 800-ish (?) feet (CFB Borden). The load I chose (some Reloder 15) turned out to be a reasonably hot one. We were shooting 15-shot strings so the highest possible score was 75.

And with it I shot the first 75 at 1000 yards that I ever shot. To say the least I was mightily pleased with this 75, but also a bit miffed that the bullet that "everybody knows" doesn't work, worked on that occasion.
 
To make it work at long range, all you need is lots of velocity. A 300 Mag does well with them, as does a 308W wth 2 scoops of powder."

"The load I chose (some Reloader 15) turned out to be a reasonably hot one."

Bingo!

Twist is not an issue. A 1:15 is all that is required. In fact, more twist makes it worse...
 
Obtunded said:
"...Bottom line: Trying to use a 168 SMK from a .308 at *true* long range is a well-documented strategic error and (is) to be avoided."

E. Shell


I guess one can take the position that it is worth experimentation to buck the collective wisdom of many, or you can apply your efforts towards known winning combinations.
Click to expand...

Who is E shell ?
 
Obtunded said:
It is only the 168 Sierra MK with a known stability issue.I have shot the plain jane Hornady 168 match bullets beyond 1K and they worked fine.
Click to expand...

Interesting.

I read several books about the issue and while they all more or less tend to say that the 168 suffers some degree of de-stabilization at longer ranges none of them have ever mentioned a specific make.

Regards,
 
The Sierra 168 is so common that oftentimes "168s" means "Sierra 168 HPMK", which can be unhelpful and confusing.

The "accusation" (if you want to call it that) against the Sierra 168 HPMK is that it is dynamically unstable. "Dynamically unstable" is a completely different thing from static spin stability.

Static spin stability is the "stability" being talked about 99% of the time. Increasing the twist rate will increase a bullet's static stability, you need at least 1.0 but most sources recommend 1.4 or more, etc etc.

Dynamic stability (and I am a bit hazy on this) means that after a certain amount of time in flight the bullet, the bullet destabilizes. The twist rate has little if any effect

Note that above I say "accusation"; I have not seen convincing information that this is in fact what is happening to Sierra 168 HPMKs. But it is the best explanation I have heard.
 
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