Anyone have issues with Speer 224 52 grain no 1035?

thebaron

thebaron

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Hey guys,
Working up a load for 22-250 today with Speer 52 grain HP I started having issues.

Everything was "ok" on the lower end of velocity 3400-3600 fps. Accuracy wasn't super, maybe 1.5 inch at 100 yards but consistent.

Once I got to 3700fps I can't even get the bullets to hit a 4*8 sheet of plywood at 50 yards.
I'm assuming they are flying apart.

Anyone else shoot these?

IMR4064 for those wondering.
 
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3700fps with that particular bullet is a pretty warm load IMHO.

That particular Speer bullet wasn't put together using their "hot core'' technology.

It uses a soft, pure lead, slug swaged into the very thin jacket with a spacious hollow point.

You just might be getting jacket/core separation at those velocities.

I load the same bullets into a Win Mod 70 short action, chambered for the 22-250 with a 22in bbl and a 1-14 twist rate.

They have to be loaded hot to be really accurate and I use the same powder.

I have had similar results to those you describe.

I had to back off my original load of 39.0 grains of IMR4064 over CCI250 primers, in Lapua cases back to 36.0 grains, which gives me appx 3550 fps from my rifle. Accuracy is excellent with this load, again, in my rifle.
 
I ran 1000 through my 223 20" bolt gun (Ruger RPR). I didn't have any problems. I was about 1.5moa using bulk ball powder and regular CCI SRP, range pickup brass. I'm sure you are pushing them a lot faster than I was so my info is not very informative.

I then went to a box of 1000 of the 50gr Speer hollow points (I consider the 52gr a 'double hollow point'). I think the double hollow point is more explosive on gophers.
 
I shot a lot of those Speer 52 HPFB bullets out of a couple of Swifts I owned.
They were usually quite accurate, and I drove them to nearly 4000 fps.

The result of a hit on a crow with that bullet/load meant only the wings hit
the ground :) ....very explosive! Dave.
 
Eagleye said:
I shot a lot of those Speer 52 HPFB bullets out of a couple of Swifts I owned.
They were usually quite accurate, and I drove them to nearly 4000 fps.

The result of a hit on a crow with that bullet/load meant only the wings hit
the ground :) ....very explosive! Dave.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's just our rifles??? 4000fps is impressive and it takes a well constructed bullet to stand up to that many RPMs
 
bearhunter said:
Maybe it's just our rifles??? 4000fps is impressive and it takes a well constructed bullet to stand up to that many RPMs
Click to expand...

It may be worth mentioning, these Swifts were Ruger 77V tang safety rifles with a 1-14" twist.

I tried some Hornady 50 grain SX bullets in one of those Swifts, and they would not get to the
100M target without blowing up in the air. They were designed for less velocity, obviously. Dave.
 
Eagleye said:
It may be worth mentioning, these Swifts were Ruger 77V tang safety rifles with a 1-14" twist.

I tried some Hornady 50 grain SX bullets in one of those Swifts, and they would not get to the
100M target without blowing up in the air. They were designed for less velocity, obviously. Dave.
Click to expand...

Thanx Dave, I beleive my Winchester M70 has a 1-14 twist as well. Now I have to go to the safe and measure it.

OK, I measured the twist rate. Surprisingly it's not a 1-14 as I assumed because it's wearing its original factory barrel, which is about the only thing on it, other than the receiver/bolt/trigger gaurd that is.

It has a 1-9 twist rate.

I am not the first owner of this rifle but it was in new condition when I acquired it. The original owner is no longer with us, so I can't query him whether or not this rifle was a special order out of the old Winchester Custom Shop.

That would explain quite a bit.
 
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My barrel is 1-12 twist. I guess around 3700 fps the rpm are too much for the little speer. Here I was trying to hit 3900 fps :rolleyes:(28 inch barrel)
Looks like I'm going back to the Vmax
 
with the 55-grain Hornady sx bullets in my 22 250 its actually cool to see the vapor trail going down range .like eagleye has mentioned sometimes they don't even make it to the target at 100 yards. lol .
 
This topic is of interest - I acquired a next-to-new Winchester Model 70 Westerner - so in 22-250, made about 1983 by USRAC - is not the "Westerner" (26" barrels) made by WRAC in the late 1950's - and it has 1-14" twist - I was worried about bullet length for stabilization - I use 55 grain V-Max in Grandson's 223 Rem, so bought a bunch of the Speer #1035 (52 grain HP) because they are shorter - expecting them to stabilize easier with that 1-14" twist. I still have not fired it - 22 inch barrel is not going to get all the velocity that others are getting ... At some place or other, I am sure that I read that original 22-250 was 1-14" twist and used 50 grain bullets as old-time standard.
 
I have good news for you guys. You don't need 4000 fps on a ~50gr hollow point to take out a gopher. The job will get done at lower velocities.
 
adamg said:
I have good news for you guys. You don't need 4000 fps on a ~50gr hollow point to take out a gopher. The job will get done at lower velocities.
Click to expand...

But I want to go faaaaaaast!

Not much point in the 22-250 if you can't take the bullets passed 223 speeds!
yes, I know you can shoot heavier pills too with it but that's what the 243 is for!
 
Potashminer said:
This topic is of interest - I acquired a next-to-new Winchester Model 70 Westerner - so in 22-250, made about 1983 by USRAC - is not the "Westerner" (26" barrels) made by WRAC in the late 1950's - and it has 1-14" twist - I was worried about bullet length for stabilization - I use 55 grain V-Max in Grandson's 223 Rem, so bought a bunch of the Speer #1035 (52 grain HP) because they are shorter - expecting them to stabilize easier with that 1-14" twist. I still have not fired it - 22 inch barrel is not going to get all the velocity that others are getting ... At some place or other, I am sure that I read that original 22-250 was 1-14" twist and used 50 grain bullets as old-time standard.
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll have any problems with the 22 inch barrel. Going off the top of my head you'll likely top out around 3600ish.
Im shooting with a 28 inch barrel. I could have in theory hit 3900 had I not had this little issue.

I know I've taken lighter vmaxes to 4300 so I should be good to load them instead of the speer. I'll keep the speer for the 223
 
"dead meat" is correct - I took mucho gophers (Richardson Ground Squirrel) back in the day with 8 foot length of sisal baler twine - with a "snaring noose" on the far end of it - I missed many, but got a bunch as well. Was like cheating, when I was old enough to go back there with a 22 Long Rifle Cooey. I do want the 22-250, now, though - for the ones out 250 yards or better - can see them, just not enough "juice" in the old 22 for those ones!!!
 
I took one of my Swifts out to Eckville, Alberta on a gopher hunt a number of years ago.
Had a close friend who owned farmland, and he invited me out to thin the gophers a bit.

I took 3 rifles with me: A Remington 541T 22 LR, A Remington 700 in 222 Remington
and a Ruger 77v in 220 Swift. In the 222 I shot 50 SX, in the Swift that Speer 52 HP.

Even though the 50 SX is quite explosive at 222 velocities, it pales in comparison to
the 52 Speer in the Swift at 3990. Gophers literally explode when tagged by the latter.

I remember one incident which demonstrated this. It was early in the summer, and
there was 5 gophers standing on one mound. I lined up on one that seemed to be
at the front, and sent one of those Speers on it's way. [about 200 yards]
That shot killed all 5 of those gophers from shrapnel and flying debris from the one
gopher. Pretty amazing! Dave.
 
For those following this I got a reply from Speer

We have tested these bullets up to around 3700 fps but that would have been out of a 1 in 14 twist barrel so it is very likely that you are spinning them apart with a 1 in 12 at those same velocities. It would be recommended to bring them back down in velocity to see if this corrects the issue.
Click to expand...
 
adamg said:
I ran 1000 through my 223 20" bolt gun (Ruger RPR). I didn't have any problems. I was about 1.5moa using bulk ball powder and regular CCI SRP, range pickup brass. I'm sure you are pushing them a lot faster than I was so my info is not very informative.

I then went to a box of 1000 of the 50gr Speer hollow points (I consider the 52gr a 'double hollow point'). I think the double hollow point is more explosive on gophers.
Click to expand...

I'll add that my 223 bolt gun has a 7" twist. So even if I'm running them at about 3100 fps, which would be my guess, that's still a lot of RPM.
 
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