Anyone Here Shoot a Siamese Mauser?

Andy

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After passing on one a couple of months ago and regretting it (I actually went back to buy it, but it was gone), I picked up a better one, and want to shoot it.

Seems like brass could be made from 7.62x54R or 8x56R. The 7.62x54R just fireformed and trimmed, the 8x56R sized down with a 7.62x54R die, fireformed and trimmed. An 8mm neck-sizer is easy enough to figure out. Of course I could always spend $100+ on 8x52R dies, but I'm cheap and like the challenge.

What do you guys do?
 
Just what is a Siamese Mauser? I see in a few publications they can be made into 45/70's. Are they 98's in some exotic calibre? Thanks for help to the curious.
 
M98 type Mauser made in Japan c1905 for Siam in 8x50R Type 45 Siamese ctg. Rechabered and sighted for the Type 66 8x52R Siamese ctg in the 20s. Remained standard Siamese rifle until the 1960s.
 
Had a couple of these fine arisaka rifles made for Thailand.
I have never seen a military or factory round for on in over forty years of looking for ammo.
 
Actually, they're very defiantely Mausers and not Arisakas. They have some Arisaka influence, but they are definately Mauser mechanically.
 
Nyles said:
Actually, they're very defiantely Mausers and not Arisakas. They have some Arisaka influence, but they are definately Mauser mechanically.

They are clones of the mauser 98, modified for a rimmed cartridge and made by the Japanese state arsenals. Parts do NOT interchange, nor are barrel shank and threads the same as the M98. These guns also have a sliding dust cover over the action. I was told by Tom Bongalis that these were manufactured by Arisaka in or about 1903 when I purchased them from him.
I have yet to see loading dies for this caliber either.
 
Beater said:
i have some factory ammo on a stripper, if you would like a pic

8x50R type 45

Would you part with one? Or would that break up the set?
You very likely have the most 8x50R ammo in one place in Canada.
I would call your situation a hoard or stockpile.
You probably also have the only stripper in Canada.
Are there any more out there?

And where did you get this stuff?
 
well, im sorry to say , that i dont think ill part with one. i have five original rounds on a stripper. its behind glass right now. ill dig it out and take a pic and post it for you fellas if you like. ive been collecting millitary ammo, under 40 MM for to many years to count,and i have some fairly rare stuff.
 
Beater said:
well, im sorry to say , that i dont think ill part with one. i have five original rounds on a stripper. its behind glass right now. ill dig it out and take a pic and post it for you fellas if you like. ive been collecting millitary ammo, under 40 MM for to many years to count,and i have some fairly rare stuff.

Unobtainium, ammo that you just can not find anywhere.
 
Alrighty gents, hear is a couple pics lets see who can decifer the headstamp

8x50R.jpg


8x50Rheadstamp.jpg
 
8x50R Type 45: Adopted in 1902 (2445) it is a 237 gr., .321-inch diameter cupro-nickel clad, full metal jacket, round nosed bullet. Approx. Muzzle
Velocity: 2050 fps.

The cartridge case was made of brass with a Berdan primer and on the bottom of the cartridge case it is marked with the numbers 45 in Siamese script. Only ball bullets were used. This cartridge was made in both Japan and at the National Arsenal in Bangkok. Note: The Siamese Type 45 is not interchangeable with the Austrian 8x50Rmm cartridge even though that round was used as a basis for the development of the Siamese Type 45 cartridge.
In the early 1920's the Siamese wanted to upgrade the Type 45 cartridge to a more powerful and pointed type of round for use in their Browning F.N., Vickers and Madsen Machine Guns and the Type 45 was not suitable for this, thus they developed the 8x52Rmm Siamese Type 66 cartridge. The 8x52Rmm Siamese Type 66 cartridge was adopted in 1923 (2466), using a spitzer boat-tail bullet, lead cored, a gilding-metal or copper-washed steel jacket design that weighed 181 grains and had a diameter of .323-inch with a muzzle velocity of 2250 fps. The cartridge case was made of brass with a Berdan and later Boxer primer and on the bottom of the cartridge case it is marked with the numbers 66 in Siamese script. Ammunition was also made in Tracer, Armor Piercing (AP) and Armor Piercing Incendiary (API). This cartridge was made at the National Arsenal in Bangkok until 1953, Japan, England (Kynoch), Denmark and Finland (Sako).
When the Type 66 cartridge was adopted, most 1903 Siamese Mausers were re-chambered and/or re-barreled to handle this cartridge. When the weapons were converted the rear sight base was cut down to give the correct elevation with the new ballistics of the Type 66 flatter trajectory, thus taking off some of the original sight graduations. This is the easiest way to tell that the weapon has been converted to the new round. It was also common practice for Japanese Arsenals to put a second assembly number on rifles that had to be rebuilt, thus you can find some of these converted weapons with two assembly number and Katakana symbols. This second assembly number is placed on the bottom of the receiver just above the original assembly assigned number. If the conversion took place at the National Armory in Bangkok it lacks the second assembly number. On some of weapons the trigger guard is usually marked with a 66 indicating that the magazine box has been converted to accept the longer Type 66 round and other parts of the weapon might also bear the 66 markings. It has been debated if the barrels on these conversions are re-chambered or re-barreled as most of the time the barrels look like they are newer to the weapon itself as the rear sight bases on them are usually pitted and the barrels are not.

http://surplusrifle.com/shooting/siammauser/index.asp
 
Ahem - back to the intention of the thread.

So..... does anyone shoot one?

I intend to shoot mine and it seems likely that brass can be made from 8x56R Hungarian. I will try it and pass on my findings.
 
i have made up ammo way in the past, and have shot one quiet a bit. i used 7.62x54 russian as my base cartridge. it was quiet a bit easyer reforming than the 45-70, or hungarian ammo.the hungarian is closser in base size than the russian, however.

by the way, i dug around a bit thismorning, it appears that i have 2 five round strippers full. so, if anyone is interested, yes, i would sell 5 rounds on a stripper. i wont part them out , sorry
 
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Well at least one person in Canada shoots a Siamese Mauser now.

I used 7.62x54R Brass as the parent cartridge, but you could also use 45/70 or 8x56R Hungarian.

- turn the rim to 0.560"
- anneal the neck
- wrap a 3/8" strip of aluminum tape around the base to bring the diameter to close to 0.500". This will centre it in the chamber when its fireformed
- fireform with 20 gr of Unique under Cream of Wheat under packed in tissue paper
- trim to 2.040"
- neck size with a 325 WSM, 8x56R or other shortish and fat 8mm F/L die
- I shot 215gr 0.329" (bore slugs to 0.327") cast bullets at about 1900 fps. Nice.

8x52R_from_762x54R_1.JPG


You can see a slight "bulge" above the rim due to the 0.485" base being fired in a 0.500" chamber. I have done this many times with many different cartridges - you see this often with new commercial brass (e.g. 303 Brit) being fired in loose military chambers. This is a non-issue when you keep the difference to less than about 0.025".

The 45/70's only advantage is that its base is the correct diameter - you have to turn down the rim, anneal it, size it in a 7.62x54R F/L die, fireform and then inside neck ream. The 8x56R is the same rountine, possibly not requiring the inside neck reaming.
 
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