Anyone import pre-1898 antiques from the states?

[mearkat32]

I was told you guys had experience with this stuff.

Has anyone imported antique handguns from the states before? Not through an importer, but driving across the border, picking them up (from an american friend), and then declaring them at the border?

Does anyone have firsthand experience with this, and know what kind of documentation the border guards like to see? I know legally there no specific permits required for importing pre-1898 antiques, but what kind of "correct" paper work helps with this process?

 

[KotKotofeich]

I have done this a few times both driving and shipping. You will need either an FRT printout that is _unambiguous_ or a letter from the RCMP confirming that particular gun is antique. They will inspect (this can be lengthy), there will be a customs declaration to fill out and pay taxes for. How easy things will be depends strongly on where you intend to cross and how much gun experience the customs post has.

 

[mearkat32]

I have done this a few times both driving and shipping. You will need either an FRT printout that is _unambiguous_ or a letter from the RCMP confirming that particular gun is antique.

So unambiguous FRT means one where the only entry is Antique, and no other entries for restricted? (like how all Mle 1873 are antique)
Or does reading the description text on the FRT count (like how the FRT for the Mle 1892 says "look for the date stamped on the barrel" to determine if restricted or antique, and the barrel is clearly marked with that date)

They will inspect (this can be lengthy), there will be a customs declaration to fill out and pay taxes for. How easy things will be depends strongly on where you intend to cross and how much gun experience the customs post has

How is the inspection process? Do they confiscate it at the border, ship it to lab techs at ottawa, and then return it to you a month later? Or is it one of those things where you sit in the waiting room for a few hours while they tear up your car?

Small additional point - I thought antiques 100 year or old (not just guns, but antiques like furniture etc.) were exempt from import duties!

Thanks!

 

[KotKotofeich]

So unambiguous FRT means one where the only entry is Antique, and no other entries for restricted? (like how all Mle 1873 are antique)
Or does reading the description text on the FRT count (like how the FRT for the Mle 1892 says "look for the date stamped on the barrel" to determine if restricted or antique, and the barrel is clearly marked with that date)

the FRT for the mle 1892 doesn't actually say that When importing those I went to get a letter. I can't really think of a FRN that has both antique, restricted and prohibited and is unambiguous enough that I would trust a CBSA officer to make the correct determination. Too much risk of getting stuck at the border for my taste. Personally, I would only go with a FRT printout if there are no entries except antique on it.

How is the inspection process? Do they confiscate it at the border, ship it to lab techs at ottawa, and then return it to you a month later? Or is it one of those things where you sit in the waiting room for a few hours while they tear up your car?

They will just look at it to make sure it is what you claim. Hopefully that is easy in your case. If not it can be a headache.

Small additional point - I thought antiques 100 year or old (not just guns, but antiques like furniture etc.) were exempt from import duties!

Duty - yes they are exempt. You still have to pay GST/HST etc.

 

[mearkat32]

the FRT for the mle 1892 doesn't actually say that When importing those I went to get a letter. I can't really think of a FRN that has both antique, restricted and prohibited and is unambiguous enough that I would trust a CBSA officer to make the correct determination. Too much risk of getting stuck at the border for my taste. Personally, I would only go with a FRT printout if there are no entries except antique on it.

Okay because i thought it reads:

Canadian Law Comments
some examples of this model, when manufactured prior to 1898, are considered "ANTIQUE" in Canada.

Other Markings

may be marked on top of the barrel: controller's initials in ovals = "M" "L", model = "Mle. 1892", the arsenal's initial "S" and the year of manufacture "1894".

Year Dates
1892

1893

1894

1895

1896

1897

1898

1899

1900

1901

1902

1903

1904

1905

1906

1907

1908

1909

1910

1911

1912

1913

1914

1915

1916

1917

1918

1919

1920

1921

1922

1923

1924

1925

1926

1927

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But you could be right, if it involves looking up the year and putting several pieces of information together, it might be easier getting a letter from the RCMP first.

Though wouldn't getting a letter be difficult if you don't have access to the handgun? Or how slow is their turnaround time?

 

[bush1]

Okay because i thought it reads:




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But you could be right, if it involves looking up the year and putting several pieces of information together, it might be easier getting a letter from the RCMP first.

Though wouldn't getting a letter be difficult if you don't have access to the handgun? Or how slow is their turnaround time?

Do you really want a RCMP letter? Just remember that once issued it’s filed and is essential a record of your antique firearm.

 

[KotKotofeich]

Okay because i thought it reads: "May be marked..."

That's right. "May" being the key word. My 1892s were not for instance, but the serials were in the proper range. Would you want to be at the border post, who knows how many miles from home, faced with the possibility of abandoning the gun there and then having to return for it later (all those miles) because they won't accept your explanations?

I'm saying this with the most helpful intentions, not criticizing... The whole point of self-clearing through customs / CBSA when bringing from the US is to save money. (Europe is a different story) If you want to save time instead, just hire an importer and it will cost you 400 at the most. If any of it goes sideways and you have to make extra trips, you are losing that 'money saved' very rapidly. It would make sense to me to have iron clad documentation and that means a RCMP letter.

Though wouldn't getting a letter be difficult if you don't have access to the handgun? Or how slow is their turnaround time?

You just have to get the seller to take pictures for you - they usually ask for pictures showing any relevant markings and a picture with a ruler showing barrel length.

My most recent was Nov 24 paperwork submitted, Dec 2 contact from a tech asking for pictures, Jan 4 letter received.

Do you really want a RCMP letter? Just remember that once issued it’s filed and is essential a record of your antique firearm.

And there is no record of current owner or current storage location, just a record of the fact that it was reclassified. Not even necessarily that it was imported btw - there are antiques that I received letters for but have not received (yet or ever, hard to say now). Sometimes there is a reason to be squirrelly, I don't think this is one of them, but you do you, free-ish country and all that

 

[drm3m]

In August 2019 I bought this Whitney Navy revolver from Ancestry Guns in Missouri.
They shipped it to my post office and I paid the duty at the post office.

No fuss ---and very well packaged.
]

Now that I have been a customer-- Ancestry sends me regular emails of their new offerings with good photos.
It is one way to see what asking prices are like in the U.S.

The painful part of purchasing in the U.S. is the dollar exchange rate. (It is brutal.)

 

[BrotherRockeye]

Many years ago a gunsmith in the US and I created a "compliance letter" citing both Canadian and US antique law. I came up with the idea when I called for an RCMP antique letter and they wanted my PAL number. We created it to replace the RCMP letter of the day to speed antique revolvers through customs. Also handy to have on hand if you have an old iron out and about. I had it filled out by the seller in the US and shipped with the iron. It cited pertinent info like caliber, date of manufacture and proof mark's if any, identifying it as a legal antique. I never had an issue once I started using it. I shared it here and its posted in the antique forum somewhere...I'd post it again but I havent needed it in years and I dont have it handy. You might try searching the stickies if it's of interest to you.
Edit:
My own curiosity got the better of me so I searched it myself.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...tique-status-form?highlight=compliance+letter
User "41 Colts" letter is post #4
Mine is post #19

 

[mearkat32]

In August 2019 I bought this Whitney Navy revolver from Ancestry Guns in Missouri.
They shipped it to my post office and I paid the duty at the post office.

See I understand finding a seller who can act as an exporter, or even paying an exporter like IRunGuns would be the easy - albeit expensive - way to do it.
In my case, I have an american friend who has an antique euro revolver that he's willing to sell me, if I come pick it up in person next time I visit. And my intention would be to drive back across the border with it. So I was hoping for help with that process.

As for him mailing it, apparently USPS will not mail handguns, even if they are antique. And UPS and Fedex won't ship firearms internationally (yeah, technically they aren't firearms under american law, but UPS and Fedex won't reimburse insurance if it's lost in shipping since it goes against their contract).

So that only leaves two options:
1. Pay an importer to do it (very expensive!)
2. Cross over the border myself by car, and declare it at the border (which is what I'm asking help on!)


While the importer seems like the easier option for just one gun, my friend also said he would help me look for any models I wanted from the states. So I might be bringing back more than one in the future (which is where costs can add up).

Do you really want a RCMP letter? Just remember that once issued it’s filed and is essential a record of your antique firearm.

That's a good point with the possibility of handgun bans coming up...

 

[BrotherRockeye]

USPS ground will definitely ship antiques to Canada from the US. Thats what the compliance letter is for. The hastle free alternative is to ship it home rather than driving it home. CBSA will open it up, verify the contents and send it on it's way.

 

[mearkat32]

USPS ground will definitely ship antiques to Canada from the US. Thats what the compliance letter is for. The hastle free alternative is to ship it home rather than driving it home. CBSA will open it up, verify the contents and send it on it's way.

When was the most recent time you did this, and what did you write as the customs declaration?

My american friend was researching the USPS regulations and he says apparently they used to allow shipping antique handguns, but don't any more in recent years. But people still do it in domestic shipments, since they just send it in a USPS flat rate box and nobody is the wiser.

That wouldn't really fly with an international package since a customs declaration is required

 

[BrotherRockeye]

Your "friend" either didnt do any research or didnt understand it.
You can look it up yourself on the USPS website or Google it for that matter.
Best of luck.