Anyone load 180s or 190s in 30-30

W

Whelen B

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Anyone have any success loading bullets in the 180 to 200 grain range or heavier into a standard modern manufacture lever gun chambered in 30-30?

I'd be interested in your experiences.

I'm thinking to produce something like a load similar to the old 303 savage loaded with 190 grains. I've read Sam Fadala who pulls bullets from 303 Savage factory rounds but I don't want to do that. Also the article doesn't give load data - only he recommends the 190 with his 30-30 in close quarter brush for elk.

I have some reference loads using the Speer 180 which is interesting but I was hoping to go even a bit heavier.

Getting a suitable bullet is the first problem. I'm wondering about filing back the tip on a heavier 30 cal bullet like the 200 speer hot core or even a 220 RN (Hornady or Sierra perhaps) or a 200 partition. Any one done this for this calibre?

I see Marstar sells a 30 cal 185 grain FN. Anyone have experience loading with that Game Ranger pill in a 30-30?

I've been using 170 Speer FN bullets which have been fine. But I want to try something that may give more straight line penetration at close range on bear.
 
Tried filing tips flat and got very poor results. Bullets would not open up at all. Too low a velocity, to long an ogive even when filed flat.

I have used the old Lyman #311284 mold for years to cast bullets for my 30 cal rifles. Depending on the alloy, they cast from 210 to 215 gr and from .309 to .311 in diamter.

I have used this bullet in several 30-30 rifles with a reasonable charge of 3031 at about 1600 fps and it is both accurate and deadly. Friend of mine has killed several 20" diameter black spuce with it, complete penetration. :wink: Never used them on game, but penetration would certainly not be an issue.

Just flatten the noses if you are going to use them in a tubular magazine like the Model 94 or Marlin.

You can still buy this mold for around $45 US in double cavity.

Ted
 
The RCBS 30-180FNGC mould throws a bullet from wheel weights that weighs 197 grains with lube and gas check on. I use these in 30-30, 300 Savage and 30-06. They are accurate, and great hunting bullets. I try to load all three cartridges to near identical velocities of just over 1900 up to 2000. Higher speed is possible if the bullets are oven hardened but the as cast bullet creates a larger wound channel. It is unusual to recover a bullet from deer sized game as they usually pass through.
 
I think you'll find most all 180+ .30cal bullets will not perform well on game animals at the speed the 30-30 can push them! If you want jacketed bullets stick with the 150-170s designed for the 30s velocity :)
 
Thanks 4 the input. Really appreciated!

I'm not sure what I'll do - but I feel the need to experiment with some heavier bullets in my Marlin 336/30-30. I found the moulds you fellas mentioned "south of dee border" as you informed. I want to get into casting sometime and I will try them when I do. For now I will probably stick with jacketed bullets.

My reading has indicated that, as odd as it might sound, in the early part of the 20th century the 303 savage in its 190RN loading was supremely favoured by western mountain elk hunters in the 1899 rifle - more favoured for that particular use than the 30-30.

Also Sam Fadala in an article entirely on the 30-30 says load it with 190RNs (Win. Silvertips pulled from loaded 303 Savage rounds) for "more punch" he says in close quarter elk hunting. He claims with IMR4064 one can achieve 2000 fps in a 20" tube and "a little more" with a 24" tube with 190s.

My challenge I think is to find or modify a bullet of that weight (or close) that will actually perform similarly on big game when lanched at around 2000 fps. I think I need a bullet of similar jacket thickness and lead core composition hardness as the 30-30 pills - which work so well at and below 2000MV.

I guess I could ask my question kinda indirectly by asking whether anyone out there has duplicated the 190RN 303 Savage loading with jacketed bullets for there old model 1899s. If so what bullet do you use?

Thanks for your thoughts guys! Any other input on this?
 
Whelen B,

That is the only bullet I know of that will work reliably at the velocities you will be able to obtain in your 30-30. The big problem, however, is finding 303 Savage ammo, and when you do it is very expensive, unless you just luck out somewhere like Doug did a year or so ago! 8)

If you do find some, I am sure you could sell the brass for around two bucks a piece, after pulling the bullets and salvaging the powder to load in your 30-30.

The 180 to 200 gr bullets you can buy for handloading are all designed to work at starting velocities at least 500 fps faster, so will be unlikely to expand at all, except at very close range.

Good luck in your project, and let us know how you make out.

Ted
 
Failing that, experimanting with cast bullet alloys is likely your best option. I've taken a number of deer with the 170 grain Lee hard cast with gas check. It worked quite well, and actually penetrated the length of a 100 lb (dressed) doe. Expansion was minimal if any, never recovered even one bullet. Deer all died quickly, all were heart/lung shots, although the end to end shot, was from the rear. (long story)
 
Unless your using something with a 26" barrel I doubt you'll get anywhere near 2000fps with 180-190s in a 30-30, more likely 1800 would be realistic :?

All above posters give good info :)

However you must consider even a unopened 180 will do as much damage as any hard cast bullet!! Those old 303s with 190s did their work on big game because of penetration. As long as you keep your shots in the boiler...go for it :) :)

Your next problem thou may be bullet length when seating 180s?? You will likely be too long to go thru a 94 action if you crimp at the crimping groove??
 
Hi,

I load old bullets I find at gun shows and auction sites. Have managed to find 5 or so boxes of 190 Grain KKSP bullets made by CIL for specifically loading 303 savage.

A very good hunting bullet for 30-30 and 303 Sav is Nosler Partition 170 Gr., if they still make it....

Have read in an old Lyman reloading manual that 190 grain bullets (Winschester Silver Tips) gave outstanding results. May be able to find some, perhaps ebay?

I have data for the 190 Grain bullets for 30-30 loads if you are interested.

Good luck,

Chris

Looky here...
http://cgi.ebay.com/303-SAVAGE-ORIG...ryZ71113QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
thanks all!

Those Hawk 190s FN sure look mighty interesting. Guess I'll hafta look into those ones!

Also a big "10-4" to straight line bullet penetration - that's what I'm wanting more of.

Can't make 2000fps???? Well I gotta try it first just to know that. With a prescribed load from Alliant (34.1 grs. ReL 15) those 170s make over 2300 with a 24" tube (2330fps Alliant reports). I use that load and know it works to generate good velocities chronographed with 170s in my gun.

I spoke with both Sierra and Hornady this week about their 220RNs .308s. The Sierra tech rep was nice enough but useless when it came to real dimensional info (length of bullet, placement of canelure and ogive etc.). Said he didn't have any of that information (???). The Hornady rep, on the other hand, was excellent and could give me all the dimensional info I needed. I may(???) be able to modify their 220RN to work - even in my short throated Marlin.

Interestingly, when I told him my plan with the 30-30 he remarked that the lead composition of their 220RN was identical to what they put in their 30-30 170s. However he also remarked that the jacket was significantly thicker but also suggested perhaps experimenting with a very fine hollowpoint to achieve some expansion with that tougher jacket at 30-30 speeds.

All I gotta do now is get at it.

I'll try and report back my success or failure but it may be a while till I pull it all together to fire some test rounds.

Thanks again to all respondents!!!
 
I emailed Hawk about those bullets and asked if they would expand properly at 30-30 velocities. I was concerned because their website says anything over .025"ackets are for faster cartridges, and the 190 gr has a .030" jacket.

Here's their reply:

Yes that is what it was made for. Has the highest S.D. in a 30-30 and will slice and dice a hog.
Thanks
Hawk Inc
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Wagner [mailto:fpcwhse@polarcom.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 12:24 PM
To: info@hawkbullets.com
Subject: 190 gr flat point 30 cal bullet


I see this bullet comes with a .030 jacket.

Will it expand at 30-30 and 303 Savage velocities?

Thanks,
Ted

So there you go. No fuss, no muss, no casting equipment to buy, no lead fumes........................ just order some and go! :)

Ted

Oh, and let us know how they work on a big hog moose or bear. :wink:
 
Great Ted! Thanks. I'll let U know when I get some how they work on game - if while toting my thurty-thurty out in the woods I can draw a bead on some poor unfortunate big game critter.

I was gonna email them myself so I'm glad I checked in here again first. They also have some awesome heavyweight 358s I see that interest me for my stable of 35 cals.
 
Whelen B, I replied to their message and here's the latest back from them:


Hi Ted; If your are shooting a short Contender Barrel in the 30-30 the .025" jackets are a must to get full expansion.
Hawk Inc
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Wagner [mailto:fpcwhse@polarcom.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 7:03 PM
To: hawk@hawkbullets.com
Subject: Re: 190 gr flat point 30 cal bullet


Thank you for your reply. I figured that must be what it was for, but was confused because your website says only the .025" jacketed bullets are for low velocity.

Thanks again,
Ted
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom