Anyone shoot 6x47 Swiss Match?

kombayotch

kombayotch

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Been looking at 6x47L. Came across some threads that say you can size 6.5x47L into 6x47 SwM:

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3482325.0
http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/19002-6x47-swiss-match/

The two 6x47's are nearly identical. The SM has a longer neck, which is appealing.

6X47plus6XC.jpg


A bit surprized the shoulder would not collapse trying to push it back. With the 6x47L, part of the original neck becomes shoulder (which is good for donuts), wondering if pushing the shoulder back to SwM headspace would bring shoulder material into the neck...

Edit: looking at the case drawings, you're only moving the shoulder back ~0.036" compared to the 6x47L... probably not worth it.
 
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I have never heard of the SwM before now. I have a 6.5x47L and absolutely LOVE it. I am very tempted to do a 6x47L as well but I am always tenative with that sort of thing when there is a chance of a mix up in ammo. Mistakes happen...
 
As long as you are willing to outside neck turn to remove that extra material, shouldn't be a problem... Just depends on how your form the case and dies you use to prep.

I am surprised your interest given you not fond of case forming and the Swiss offers less case capacity. More work, less performance.

6XC would be alot better on a number of fronts.

Jerry
 
Not going to neck turn... had heard that you only need to run it into the die, same as 6x47L. Not sure about that. You're putting neck material into shoulder sizing down the neck from 6.5 to 6, but you're likely pulling shoulder material into the neck when you bump the shoulder back.

I've come to the conclusion that the smaller capacity is actually an advantage in PRS shooting. The stats on the PRB support this. There is a clear trend: the smaller the cartridge, the better the shooters placed on averages. It is apparent in both the 6 and 6.5s. The smaller the cartridge, the easier it is to spot your shots.

Without a source for affordable 6XC brass, its a non-starter for me. I was pretty much decided on 6x47L, but then I read about people forming 6x47 SwM from 6.5x47L and that appealed to me. I think the longer neck and the slightly smaller capacity are both advantages.
 
No neck turning... yeah with Lapua brass, things may not go very well.

Then moving that shoulder AND super thick brass. I would be stunned if you didn't form a great big donut at the base of the neck.

Have you considered hydro forming? Now you can make all sorts of cheap 6XC from 22-250 and not have to fire a shot.

Jerry
 
No time for that...

Neck turning isn't required. Heck, many sucessful FTR shooters don't even do it with Lapua brass. My buddy who won the Berger SWN doesn't. Last I spoke to the Chous, they don't or at the very most skim turn next to nothing (so little that they still size the neck with 0.336).

You don't want your neck too thin anyway when your brass is getting stepped on and falling from towers onto concrete.
 
Yeah, but those guys aren't sizing down their necks either... 308 out of the box is a pretty safe bet. Overly thick brass THEN sizing down... its got to go somewhere.

I think you will find that more and more ARE turning their necks... Pretty hard to use a bushing die if you do not especially in something like the 308, high pressures and many firings. Brass will flow... .

And lots do vary. Some lots are great... some, not so much. I think if you measured top competitor brass, you will find quite often, that the thickness is consistent to the thinnest for that lot. Measure the necks from a few lots of L brass... I think you will find what we know.

Annealing used to be voodoo... now it's SOP for most top shooters. And the better annealers AREN'T cheap. And now there is induction annealers.

F class demands continue to escalate and it is pretty hard to keep up without the best prep and techniques.

And not everyone talks about all their "secrets" :)

Jerry
 
I doubt anyone in the PRS finale turned necks for any cartridge except for the 6.5 SAUM because the reamer was apparently designed with too tight of a neck. The 6x47L samples I have here have 0.0125" thick necks after sizing down. That is perfectly fine. My 6mm Crusader cases have 0.0125" thick necks and it does this:



And, that's not off a machine rest with a big rabbit ear bag and a 1 oz. trigger, it's off a Harris 6-9 bipod with a mini corebean bag and a Trigger Tech trigger set to 2.5 lbs. And my brass is always FL sized...

Settled on 51.5 gr. which gave single digit SDs. Grouped fine at 300 and 400 as well.






I see no need to turn necks if your chamber has adequate neck clearance.
 
Different games... different needs. If you have process that is working for you, have at it. Great shooting by the way.

I would throw out there if using a case for several firings, to monitor how the necks change. maybe it matters, maybe it doesn't

But change it will...and if using bushing neck dies, how much change before it starts affecting the end result?

I have never sized down a case neck (many years of wildcatting) and had it be even over all the cases sized so outside neck turning for me, is a given. YMMV.

Jerry

PS... given todays tools, I can outside neck turn a case in about the same time it takes to clean a primer pocket. I just don't see the hassle and it is just one more positive step I feel helps me make the most consistent ammo I can.
 
The cases used had been through two barrels and had 17 firings on them. Always sized with the same Type-S FL bushing die with the same 0.266 bushing. Annealed after every 3 firings. Winchester 6mm Rem brass.

And the bullet has always been seated down below the shoulder to make mag length.
 
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I have a rifle chambered in 6X47SM that I did up because I had a bunch of RUAG brass given to me by a friend from Germany and it was the one of the only 6mm cartridges I had never tried It is very similar to the XC, but the brass is the only stuff to rival Lapua out of the box for quality and consistency. I have played with 6-6.5X47 Lapuas and they were a fussy round for me. Gave up. I have also played with the 6-22-250 which was pretty good (Might go back now with Lapua brass) . The XC is the closest to the 6x47 Swiss for ease of use, but you need (not sure if you still do) to buy dies from Tubb. Combination of a great barrel for me, good brass and an easy load to make work, and being a bit different makes this my favorite 6mm cartridge. Try VV N550 and start at about 36 grains with a 105 hybrid and go up from there. It is like a 6BR on steroids.
 
Many of the cases I hear about with the 6-6.5x47L being finicky seem to be with chambers that have too tight in the necks. For some reason, they're doing 0.272 necks for no turn because the brass is supposed to be 0.268 loaded. But, some lots have apparently been as high as 0.270. At least that is what I've heard.

Have you tried making brass for it from 6.5x47L as the mention in the links? Supposedly, you just need to run a 6.5x47L case into the 6x47 SwM FL die and voila! Seems to me you might get a donut though... you're putting ~0.010 neck into the shoulder when you go 6-6.5x47L, but you're going to take ~0.036" out of the shoulder when you bump the shoulder back.
 
I absolutely have to turn my 6.5x47L brass regularly. I just use a wilson trim die and chuck it into my mini lathe and I can do a lot of cases in a very short order with exremely good consitency. All of my Lapua brass has thick walls and it flows more so than the brass I have used in any of my other rifles. I have also recently picked up a sinclair/wilson inside reamer and I will be trying that out to see how it works. I haven't found the 6.5x47 fussy to load for at all. It shoots everything very well for me. It has been much more forgiving than my Dads identical rifle in 260 remington.

I have a M700 VLS in 243 I would like to rebarrel and have been throwing around the idea of 6xc and 6x47L but I am unfamiliar with forming brass and following these threads lately has scared me away from the 6xc. I may just go with a 243 again or go single shot in a 6br. I sure would like to be able to use a 6mm for varmint/dog hunting too...
 
So I'm likely going to start turning for my new 6.5x47. The question I have is what's the proper neck clearance in the chamber? Or what are the dimensions I'm looking for?
 
Many long range shooters go with 0.004 neck clearance (diameter). Benchresters can get away with less since they clean after very few rounds. I've always found that things work best when I have at least 0.006 clearance over loaded neck diameter. Whenever I've designed reamers that have less than that, I always end up turning my necks to achieve that amount of clearance. The 6x47L reamer I just finished designing has 0.0065 diameter clearance over the loaded neck diameter, which turned out to be 0.270 on the 6.5x47L brass I bought after it was sized down to 6mm. It's no wonder people have issues using these 0.272 neck "no-turn" reamers.
 
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