Anyone shooting the 1869 WERDER Pistol (or Rifle)

[dingus]

I just got a very cool BIG single shot pistol a Weder M 1869 .
First one i ever had man there wicked cool guns.
Now i been told they fires a big ass cartridge that you can make from 348 win rifle cases.
The bore is like 45 cal I think a 250 Gr SWC sized .452 would shoot great i just need the case so anyone shooting one of theses how are you makeing ammo (cases)?
It could be converted to 43 mauser so im told but id rather try it in its own cartridge first.
Assumeing its not already been changed in its long past.
Anyone got anty parts from and old weder rifle ?

The rifle and pistol use the same ammo (so i was told) so be cool to pick up a rifle like this as well but first i want the ammo problem sorted out.
I know ive seen theses big pistols sold in the EE so someones haveing fun with them.

What a BIG kick ass handgun, antique handgun Bear defence thred anyone

 

[plinker 777]

...or it didn't happen.

 

[smellie]

There is a recent thread over at Milsurps dot com in the Black Powder section, on shooting both the Werder Lightning Rifle AND the pistol.

Fellow makes the pistol rounds from .348W, uses .45 slugs at .454.

I have seen a couple but have never fired one. Really fast action, if just a touch unwieldy.

Still, I think it just might be good for slowing down a T-72. It's a MONSTER.

You are a Very Lucky Guy.

 

[twosteam]

I did a google search, and this is some of what I found..



This is the workings of the rifle- could not find (or look long enough) for pistol.
(I understand that the inner workings are the same.)



This is the pistol. ( not Dingus's specifically - you understand.)
This pistol is so ugly that it is beautiful. You are lucky Dingus.



And this is the load.
Data taken from original pistol cartridge:
Powder weight:37.5 grains.
Bullet diameter: 11.379 mm.
Bullet weight: 20.93 grains.

The site said grains (when talking about the bullet) but likely they meant grams.
(That would be 330 grains approximately)

janice

 

[rgbai]

Is it the one that had the missing trigger guard?

 

[dingus]

There is a recent thread over at Milsurps dot com in the Black Powder section, on shooting both the Werder Lightning Rifle AND the pistol.

Fellow makes the pistol rounds from .348W, uses .45 slugs at .454.

I have seen a couple but have never fired one. Really fast action, if just a touch unwieldy.

Still, I think it just might be good for slowing down a T-72. It's a MONSTER.

You are a Very Lucky Guy.

I will check that out thanks for the posts.

 

[plinker 777]

Looks like someone made a pistol receiver out of an Enfield mag.

37.5 grains behind a 330 grain projectile= do not get in front of it!{perhaps even a bit fearful of standing behind it!?} BFB {Big Fekkin Boom}

 

[gabrielguitars]

My carbine uses the same round, and I found .348 cases far too large to fit, so I used .45-70 brass. I'm not entirely sure, but I think mine might have a very tight chamber, as it was made commercially, not a military barrel. The cartridge is called the 11.5X35R. I would love to try the pistol, it is crazy wacky-cool!

 

[infidel29]

damn!

 

[bross]

I too have started shooting the Werder pistol. So far I have been forming from 45/70 brass. It works, but comes out looking like a coke bottle after firing. The undersize base (and rim) don't fire form any noticeable amount. I have bought some 8mm Lebel, which still needs to be turned down at base and rim before forming. (some irony in using one side of conflict to supply the other).

From reading of dimension tables, .348 Winchester or its shorty child .500 Linbaugh should also work. I am ordering Linbaugh brass and will share the results once I have it. Usual Starline whenever delivery date. The Linbaugh should only need necking down. 450/400 Nitro also has similar dimensions. There seems to be no path that doesn't involve unobtanium. (sigh)

Using 45/70 formed brass and a .452 acp bullet of 230 grains the pistol groups very well but shoots high at 25m and 50m. I'm looking for a 300gr - 340gr mold to get closer to the military specifications.

Must have reference for this: German Military Rifles, Dieter Storz, PhD. The first 100+ pages are all about the Werder - and I do mean ALL: guts, anecdotes, development, ballistics table, all accessories.

I do believe that this is one antique which will dispatch a bruin, rather than irritate. Thump on my end is 25% over my Old Army; or any 45 Colt. The full capacity cases should be even better! The military tested penetration on heavy cavalry breast plates at 50m. The plates would deflect a lance, but not the Werder.

 

[dingus]

I have 8 rds of 348 brass anyone know what the trim lenth is ? i can use them to start with.
I guess i just need the length of the werder case and copy that for trim length.
348 brass is hard to come by tho. but i wont need that many rounds i just want some to try it.
Anyone want to share smokeless load data ? if there useing it in theses pistols ?

 

[Musketfire]

This is the pistol. ( not Dingus's specifically - you understand.)
This pistol is so ugly that it is beautiful. You are lucky Dingus.

Looks strong, I like it.

 

[bross]

11.5x35R

This is from a European cartridge identification site

 

[DEZ]

Try shortening some 7.62x54R brass then fire form .

 

[gabrielguitars]

1.383" for length, .520" at the base, according to those cartridge drawings.
.620" rim diameter, and overall length is 1.93".
.45-70 is .505" base, and .608" rim, so you can see why I chose it. The .348 Winchester is a whopping .553" at the base, meaning a lot of turning and/or swaging of the base to get it to work, and then the rim is only .002" bigger than the .45-70, so that's a no-brainer.