Anyone want to help identify and value an old collection? (Pic Heavy) UPDATE

polskadude

polskadude

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I am helping my friends father liquidate his collection that he got from his father. Owner of these guns is not a collector and would like to see them go to people who would appreciate them, while still getting fair value for them. I wrote what I know about it. Any help to identify what they are and current value would be greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, I am not taking any offers at this time. These are not my rifles.

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1.) 1942 - Russian M91/30 Mosin Nagant Rifle 7.62 X 54R Mismatch Bolt. All the other numbers I was able to find match. Has bayonet.




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2.) WM Moore - Wm Moore & Co 12 gauge double barrel shotgun. Belgian made with Damascus barrels. Read somewhere that these are no longer safe to fire with modern 12 Gauge ammunition.




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3.) GR BSA Co 1916 SHT. L.E. III - 303 BRITISH LEE-ENFIELD




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4.) 1864 Enfield Snider MK. II XX





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5.) MOD. MAUSER 1896 LUDW. LOEWE & CO BERLIN




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6.) Unknown


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7.) Steyr 1890 GEW 88 - Austria 8x50R





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8.) Unknown



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9.) Mauser - Turkish 1893 Mauser - Missing rear sight





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10.) Zulu (Thanks Oldstarfire)



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11.) Mauser Mod. 98 CE 1942




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12.) Model 1914 Pioneer Sawback Bayonet




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13.) 1939 Coppel Gmbh K98K bayonet, 1938 Rich.A.Herder Scabard



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14.) Smith and Wesson M&P 38 Revolver


 
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2 is a Belgian hardware store shotgun, while seems in good shape, not a using gun, maybe $50 to 150
10 is French military (sporterized) muzzle loader, commonly known as a Zulu, many sold in Africa, many converted to breechloading, using a system similar to the Snider. I wont speculate on value, as I have no interest in front stuffers. Looks quite good on the outside tho.
14 is a S&W Victory, not a K38. Nice revolver, my guess $200 to 400
 
7. is likely 8x57 or 7.92x57 or 8mm Mauser (all three are the same cartridge). The "S" usually indicates that it has a .323 bore, as opposed to a .318.

5. is likely a veteran of the Boer War, Model 1896 O.V.S. (Orange Free State), likely in 7mm Mauser/7x57. I have only ever seen one other such beast, and that was just a month or so ago at the Regina gun show.

Nice collection.

Edit: Are there any other carvings on the stock?
 
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No1 is a mismatched mosin without bayonet; $150

No3 is a rough looking smle no1mk3*, i wonder how the bore is? If shootable, i would say maybe 350 with a bit of luck f there are no serious issues and all parts are there... and its rear sight guard is backwards. Given the appearance of the receiver in one of the pictures i suspect there may be more hidden pitting under the forend.
 
#9 is a very rare rifle likely in 7.65x54.

#5 looks like it never made it to Afrika and was sold to Chile (I think I see the edge of the Chilean crest).
 
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No. 7 is a M1888 Commission rifle, made by Steyr. Caliber will be 7.92x57I.

Serial numbers of OVS Mausers are known. If it went to Africa, it is a lot more desirable than one diverted to Chile.

The half stocked muzzle loading rifle with the back action lock looks interesting. Any markings?
 
I am going to try to give rough values to the ones I am more comfortable with. Some of these rifles are pretty rare, however they don't come up for sale often so attaching a value to them is difficult.

1.) 1942 - Russian M91/30 Mosin Nagant Rifle 7.62 X 54R Mismatch Bolt. All the other numbers I was able to find match.
about 150$,
3.) GR BSA Co 1916 SHT. L.E. III - 303 BRITISH LEE-ENFIELD
Depends on bore condition. This one is interesting as it has the stock which was inleted for the volley sight, however the volley sight wasn't attached due to it being after the point volley sights were deemed obsolete. Roughly depending on if the numbers match or not 350$-550$.
5.) MOD. MAUSER 1896 LUDW. LOEWE & CO BERLIN
I would say somewhere in the 600-1200$ range, this is one of those fairly rare/uncommon firearms
7.) Steyr 1890 GEW 88 - Austria 8x50R
This specific model is a Gew 88'S'. It also has the spring loaded plunger on the bottom of the magazine, so to keep dirt out, and causing the shooter to have to eject the clip out of the top of the rifle (similar to a Garand). Caliber is 8x57 Mauser, recommended to use .318 dia bullets unless you have actually slugged the bore. Value depending if it is all matching or not, somewhere in the 450-1000$ range.
9.) Mauser - Turkish 1893 Mauser - Missing rear sight
This is a really rare Mauser. The Turkish ran a very successful updating program in the 1930s which converted all of these rifles in inventory into 8mm Mauser. Usually if they are still in the original 7.65x53 they were captured by some other nation in either the First or Second Balkan war or WWI. It is missing the rear sight, and value wise these next to never come up. I would guess in the 600-1500$ range just due to rarity, however in the end it depends on if someone is looking for one or not.
11.) Mauser Mod. 98 CE 1942
There are tons of little details that can effect something like this and I am not going to pretend I am up to date on the values or little details. I do notice from a quick glance it has a Czech front sight protector on it. Value I would roughly guess at 800$, maybe more depending. Hopefully someone who is a Mauser expert can give you more details.
12.) Model 1914 Pioneer Sawback Bayonet
I would say roughly 150-200$. It might have been refinished or never issued as it doesn't have a serial number stamped on the hilt.

I know I would love to have some of these in my collection (the 1888'S' and the 1893 Mauser) however funds are short, and your not selling them at the moment. Hope this helps.
 
I would appreciate it if you took more photos and started a new thread on #9, don't think I've ever seen one outside of a book.
 
What number is the CE 98? I have one, # 1288 same year. Yours looks to have been re-barreled and looks like the stock has been sanded.
Great collection!
 
#11 is gorgeous and would look great in my gun room, though as Eaglelord mentioned the front sight appears to be a mismatch. The stock has presumably been sanded too as they are seldom found in that good a condition.

#14 I would put around $200. Demand is fairly low because the obsolete and hard to find cartridge makes shooting them difficult. Remington and Winchester make new .38 S&W ammo but virtually no gun shop bothers to stock it, and shooting these revolvers tends not to be a satisfactory enough experience for anyone to want to special order it (I should know, I own four). They also require oversized diameter bullets (0.361" or so) which means reloading is also a challenge and again falls victim to the effort vs. reward ratio which on these guns is rather low.
 
The OVS mauser might be worth significant money. Boer war rifles are scarce and desirable. The CE 42 was made by J.P. Sauer in 1942. If unmessed with and not refurbed or anything it would be worth decent money as well. Most CE 42 K98k rifles went to the Eastern Front and never returned. This one has stamped and welded sling and barrel bands which was a 1944-45 trait in the K98k. That along with the Czech front sight protector makes me think it is a Czech or East German refurb. Value around $650 or so.
 
# 14 is most likely not A Victory, and defiantly not a 1914 anything. The Victory models had a very special serial number range that actually started with a V. It is more than likely an M & P. Although the Victory and the M & P are, for all intense an purposes the same gun, the models are different. This revolver wasn't adopted until early WW II. Check the top strap for the inscription "U.S. Property", if that is there it is a Victory so long as the serial # starts with a "V", if not it is an M & P

The holster is the interesting "Tanker" holster issued to the royal tank corps, they are getting hard to find but not altogether rare. Look for Canadian acceptance marks with the C and broad arrow on either the holster or revolver.

Gun is worth about $ 200.00 to $ 250.00, holster and belt about $ 50.00 to $ 75.00

Check to see that some idiot has not rechambered it to .38 special. This was a common malpractice after the war and during some imports of the guns from far off warehouses. Just see if a .38 special cartridge can drop in, if not then you are fine. Although .38 Smith and Wesson is sometimes hard to find it is easy to reload and in these revolvers, loaded with 158 grn SWC with a dia of .357, will be quite accurate. Don't soup it up, just enjoy shooting it and it is a great cartridge to introduce new shooters to with it's very mild recoil.

Scott
 
Number 7 is a significant find.
Steyr 1890 GEWEHR 1888 in 8x57J.

This is NOT the more common 88/05 model modified for "stripper" clip feeding, but rather an original 88 that is charger fed, similar to a Breathier rifle. VERY few of these escaped being converted to 88/05 or 88/14 configuration. It's actually worth a lot of money. Like $1000+. More if the bore is clean and the bolt matches.

Number 9 is also a rare find. As a 93 Mauser with original markings intact, it's uncommon. Too bad the sight is missing. It looks to have an intact cutoff. Probably a $600+ rifle, which is saying a lot for a turk mauser.

the OVS Mauser is also valuable, but others have covered that well.

The Vistory model revolver is cool, but not particularly valuable. $350 on a good day. The price is the same whether a late M&P or an early Victory. As mentioned, if it's a victory, it will have US property on the top strap and a V serial number prefix on the base of the butt. The smooth grips point to victory though. Most M&Ps were checkered.
 
m39a2 said:
...loaded with 158 grn SWC with a dia of .357, will be quite accurate.
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Not with a .361" bore. The .38 Special "conversions" are among the worst things that can be done to these revolvers because apart from the poor accuracy potential, the .38 S&W cartridge is wider than the .38 Special. Firing .38 Special out of a reamed-out .38 S&W cylinder often leads to bulged or split cases so not only are you just lobbing bullets randomly around the target, you're throwing away the brass. There is also the question of heat treatment of the frame and whether it will withstand the repeated higher pressures of the .38 Special. If the gun in question has this "enhancement" done to it, I would value it at less than $100 and not recommend firing it.

Some guns are legit converted to .38 Special with a new barrel and cylinder, which while destroying the historic value IMO adds value for the shootability (there still exists the issue of frame heat treatment however). This gun would not be one of them as the barrel is still clearly marked .38 S&W which indicates a .361" bore.
 
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I appreciate all the knowledge being shared, its crazy how much history is behind these rifles.

kjohn said:
Are there any other carvings on the stock?
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Nope, nothing that looks intentional.

tiriaq said:
The half stocked muzzle loading rifle with the back action lock looks interesting. Any markings?
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Nope, nothing to identify at all.

m39a2 said:
# "U.S. Property", if that is there it is a Victory so long as the serial # starts with a "V", if not it is an M & P
Look for Canadian acceptance marks with the C and broad arrow on either the holster or revolver.
Just see if a .38 special cartridge can drop in, if not then you are fine. Scott
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No Property of US. No V, must be M&P
Only proof mark is on the bottom of the grip, next to the sling point, "WB. C" (with feathers off the top) and a small "P"
.38 Special do NOT fit.

Claven2 said:
More if the bore is clean and the bolt matches.
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Whole rifles matches, 3598Z Chamber and bore look good to me.


No3 GR BSA Co 1916 SHT. L.E. III - 303 BRITISH LEE-ENFIELD. Chamber and barrel look decent, some grease packed in there. Looks to be all matching. No cleaning kit in the butt stock (I am guessing there should be based on the SKS stock hole?)

More info on the CE 42 K98k
Proof Mark followed by 357 on the chamber. Serial 1770
Proof mark followed by 280 on the magainze plate. Under that is serial 509.
Proof mark followed by 855 on the bolt
So its a factory refurb?
Stock looks very good, no wood filler or dents, don't know if it was sanded or not.

New item. German Pecar Berline Variable 3-7 scope with weird mounts. Anyone know what rifle it does on? I don't think it fits any of mine.



 
5.) MOD. MAUSER 1896 LUDW. LOEWE & CO BERLIN

Here is the crest on the chamber.


Should I clean any of these rifles to see confirm the rifling? some are gooey inside.
 
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