APC 223 or Bren 2
- Thread starter myles
- Start date
Pros for APC:
Shoots smoother (because its much heavier)
A nice refined finish
Cons:
Heavy - not good for running and gunning, but not an issue if you only plan to bench shoot.
No real aftermarket (good luck getting spare/replacement parts)
Reciprocating charging handle
Muzzle heavy.
Price
Pros for Bren 2
Price - you can outfit it with some nice accessories and glass with all the money saved.
Aftermarket products and spare parts available
Non reciprocating charging handle
Reliable and robust with combat experience to back it.
Cons
I really don't know of any.
Both are equal in accuracy. IMHO the APC has nothing on the Bren 2.
Shoots smoother (because its much heavier)
A nice refined finish
Cons:
Heavy - not good for running and gunning, but not an issue if you only plan to bench shoot.
No real aftermarket (good luck getting spare/replacement parts)
Reciprocating charging handle
Muzzle heavy.
Price
Pros for Bren 2
Price - you can outfit it with some nice accessories and glass with all the money saved.
Aftermarket products and spare parts available
Non reciprocating charging handle
Reliable and robust with combat experience to back it.
Cons
I really don't know of any.
Both are equal in accuracy. IMHO the APC has nothing on the Bren 2.
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Wesleyjenn
New member
- Location
- Saint John nb
I was just in same boat restricted bren awesome price or NR APC went with APC. Oh and I owned both in past also!!
I spent the summer shooting a few service matches with an R18 and an APC and competed against a few Brens.
In my opinion the Bren is nowhere near as accurate as the APC.
Gen 2 APC eliminates the reciprocating charging handle.
APC is non-restricted and the OEM Bren is restricted to apples to oranges in that department. If you want a NR Bren, you could theoretically catch up in the accuracy department, but the cost between the two would be a wash also.
APC pro feels like half premium, you get a nice looking and smooth upper but it feels half complete with the so so stock that didn't lock in and the lower. I mean we don't have much in canada for sport shooting but the apc 223 pro that I tried felt overpriced for what it is. Front heavy but more accurate and trust worthy than some kodiak thats for sure.
I am selling my last gen 10" APC so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
For bare A**ed sports shooting with no LAD and other gadget APC is my pick. And I don't like these complicated non-reciprocated charging handle. AK SG55X SCAR work great, you kick the thing loose if it is stuck....simple stuff works, but americans like complicated stuff just because THIS IS the way they HAVE TO do things.
The new Gen APC 10 is lighter because they cut down the gas block size - that's the only thing I like about it. I don't like these bigger holes in the handguard so bigger debris can get stuck in. APC handguard doesn't work with PEQ14. It uses AR trigger - so for pure "sports shooting" it is my choice. AR trigger is the way to go.
Bren is lighter, and the trigger is ridiculous light for this sort of rifle, but it is definitely more of a Honda with a lot of plastic going on, it is a GLock of rifle. I honestly do not like the handguard they are using bolted together with million pieces, with eyelets at the wrong spot. It is only useable with the M-Lok factory handguard but extra $$$, but it works with PEQ14. The lower price tag comes with the fact that it is the only rifle of this type that I know of which doesn't run on steel guides. So the cam pin will slowly eat away the receiver like AR15 receiver, but the point is by the time it is not useable it will be way over 20K+ rounds by my guess or the operator is not operating anymore. At least the rail is more continuous on top, without all these outsized slots to accommodate bolts like on the APC, so more useable rail estate. If there is a need to load up on LAD, light, switches, etc etc, Bren is way more practical than the APC.
So what is the punch like? HK416 is the best lol.
For bare A**ed sports shooting with no LAD and other gadget APC is my pick. And I don't like these complicated non-reciprocated charging handle. AK SG55X SCAR work great, you kick the thing loose if it is stuck....simple stuff works, but americans like complicated stuff just because THIS IS the way they HAVE TO do things.
The new Gen APC 10 is lighter because they cut down the gas block size - that's the only thing I like about it. I don't like these bigger holes in the handguard so bigger debris can get stuck in. APC handguard doesn't work with PEQ14. It uses AR trigger - so for pure "sports shooting" it is my choice. AR trigger is the way to go.
Bren is lighter, and the trigger is ridiculous light for this sort of rifle, but it is definitely more of a Honda with a lot of plastic going on, it is a GLock of rifle. I honestly do not like the handguard they are using bolted together with million pieces, with eyelets at the wrong spot. It is only useable with the M-Lok factory handguard but extra $$$, but it works with PEQ14. The lower price tag comes with the fact that it is the only rifle of this type that I know of which doesn't run on steel guides. So the cam pin will slowly eat away the receiver like AR15 receiver, but the point is by the time it is not useable it will be way over 20K+ rounds by my guess or the operator is not operating anymore. At least the rail is more continuous on top, without all these outsized slots to accommodate bolts like on the APC, so more useable rail estate. If there is a need to load up on LAD, light, switches, etc etc, Bren is way more practical than the APC.
So what is the punch like? HK416 is the best lol.
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At its best it was "so-so" experience.
I had been planning to do so but it looks like it's hard to find time to put all of this together with references and explanations. So the short version would be like this.. More sensitive to debris up to the point of failure, unfortunately there was a case when several soldiers lost their lives, in the same group of ppl only two AKs kept working and that allowed the rest to retreat. Plastic stock hinge breaks easily, not much use from the gun after this. Charging handle flimsy, bends and breaks easily - again, very critical flaw. Mag over insertion on certain types of mags. Very short bolt "overtravel" (is it called "overtravel"? the distance the bolt travels after it clears the mag and to the moment it stops) increases the chances of failure to feed. x39 version has even shorter bolt travel distance after it clears the magazine. Left side mag release is not protected from accident engagement and very often gets pressed by soldier gear leading to dropped mag.
Ya...I call BS. Maybe on a few units it's possible. But these are not widely reported issues. A few rifles with issues does not set the standard. Especially when so many have been released into combat over the last year. If that was the case, ARs would be the ####tiest platform in existence with all the problems they have experienced.
Bren all the way, been running corroded Steelcase mfs garbage ammo with no issues 500 rounds in. Trigger is very nice, almost like it as much as my ssa's. Apcs are essentially marketing and not much more, kinda like the gun version of Supreme. People like apcs for the superiority status of having a 5k rifle that jams on Steelcase and weighs 9 pounds unloaded, lol. Apcs are always bumped to page like 5 with constant price drops.
fritzhanzel
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The problems with the Bren2 are well reported if you do your homework. The rifle is a $2,500 rifle, just overpriced in Canada due to NR requirement and hype. When I see what some dealers and private sellers are asking, I can only chuckle.
From what I see, mostly new shooters buy it as their "first and last ultimate rifle". ..
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If you like using locktite on the 28 setscrews that hold your 11lb swiss gun together, you can't go wrong with either the M10X or the APC. Both are made during the nightshift in a factory that on paper should only be manufacturing boat anchors.
Ya, the probelms are so well reported that I can't find anything online and you can't even provide the proof.
I'm not trying to be rude, but it seems like you have something against the bren rather then caring to look at how great of a platform it actually is.
Edit: I won't be responding to anything you have to say until you can provide this widespread proof you speak of.
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I think that ''way more'' is an overstatement from what I've seen. The APC has a metal upper and a polymer lower and stock same as Bren, if the lower was some solid 7060 aluminum I would see the price justified on the APC. Plus that slight extra weight would probably help to balance the heavy muzzle. I mean you can like buy a decent motocross for that price and how much metal is that. Reminds me of my fix by q 308 wich isn't any better price wise but oh well this is an overpriced hobby lol.
There are video feedback from both our side and orcs. I am not in the position to ignore feedback and it completely correlates with my observations of the platform, that's just coincidental, right? Dunno why you call feedback from real life use as "BS". When you do so, does it magically turns the plastic hinge into metal one? Does it magically changes the mag stop mechanism? I don't think ignoring information or calling it "BS" without supporting argument is a way to hold conversation, TBH. Let me ask you this way - when you see a video of UA volunteer saying the hinge is a problem place, when see a video of orc with capured rifle with broken hinge, and when you examine the rifle and see how little force is required to break the hinge - is it still "BS"? Any single argument I provided is supported in the same manner as "hinge" argument.
AR had its issues when it was issued to US Army. They were resolved. Bren 2 just got to the frontlines in 2022. Its issues are not resolved, I don't see how AR15 is relevant here. You believe they will be? I don't speculate about the future, I observe what we have now. It's one of the best rifles we have in Canada but it's a mediocre battle rifle and mediocre civilian rifle for a number of valid reasons.
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You're right! For some reason I thought the APC had a metal lower. I stand corrected.
