Apparently model12's& auto5's values of diminished

Why do you say this struff55?
What are you seeing and where are you seeing this?
There was/is a nice 20gauge A-5 in the ee that I tossed an offer of 800 for.
Asking was 850, didnt get a peep back....
Seems the prices are holding.. and by nice I mean all the bluing, the wood and finish is intact and a factory modified barrel too.
The paper under the fore stock was still there as well and that would show the gun hasnt seen much inclement weather , well at least my thoughts towards this example.
Rob
 
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I have seen a big drop in model 12 shotguns over the last few years ..anything with a fixed full choke seems to have gone down in price. .Dutch
 
FLHTCUI said:
Why do you say this struff55?
What are you seeing and where are you seeing this?
There was/is a nice 20gauge A-5 in the ee that I tossed an offer of 800 for.
Asking was 850, didnt get a peep back....
Seems the prices are holding.. and by nice I mean all the bluing, the wood and finish is intact and a factory modified barrel too.
The paper under the fore stock was still there as well and that would show the gun hasnt seen much inclement weather , well at least my thoughts towards this example.
Rob
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I have to agree with this. If the OP is referring to whats taking place on EE ads, it maybe a reflection that the original asking prices were high. But im seeing steady pricing from a lot of retailers and those guns are not lasting very long on used gun racks. But it always amazes me when i see what some of the very nice examples are selling for....and by selling, I mean actually being sold and not just listed and sitting around for a potential buyer
 
Standard field grade Mod. 12 - 12 gauges have certainly dropped in asking price from what they were once overpriced at .... Trap & Skeet guns have held their own, particularly the small bore Skeet models. The Model 12 Duck and some of the Deluxe versions are still holding high values.

Good Model 42's, whether field or target guns I'm sure have increased.
 
I've seen standard field model 12ga's in decent condition trying to be hocked for upwards of $600 on the EE as of recently.
You've got to be huffing fackin' glue to think they're worth even close to that, unless it's a field model in the original grease and packing box from 1950 and even then....

I got a nice 1927 beat to hell but mechanically 100% off the EE last year for $200 shipped to my door!
I like to say the only adds on the EE are the ones that are marked up too high because all the good deals go in a couple days.....
 
As far as balance, quality, workmanship, durability, reliability, aesthetics, and design are concerned, those are both outstanding shotguns. Unfortunately, most were made before steel shot and choke tubes so their versatility suffers IF you are intending to shoot steel shot.
 
My sons and I all shoot 12 ga. mod 12's for waterfowl. Opened the original full chokes to modified on the two my sons shoot, put an aftermarket Hastings barrel on mine. All handle steel shot with NO problems and all have killed many, many birds with steel shot. ( We enjoy a 36 bird daily limit when snows, canadas and ducks are coming to the same field) But we only paid $260, $275, and $450 for them about 10 years ago. The last price was for mine with the aftermarket vent rib barrel and interchangeable chokes. I have not seen any advantage to the choke tubes, I just leave the modified tube in and use it for all my goose and duck shooting. And I no longer use or want to use 3" shells, 2-3/4" Faststeel or equivalent do everything i need done, whether shooting Teals or giant Canadas.

For all waterfowl except pass shooting at long range, there is NO disadvantage to using them for steel shot, with appropriate chokes of 0.025" - 0.015" restriction. As Grouse Man stated above, they are high quality and far superior guns to the more common Remington 870 Express or the Mossberg 500 IMHO. It doesn't bother me that the price is going down, mine aren't for sale. The model 12's I have seen on the EE have generally been overpriced in the past few years, and it is good to see them come down a bit so more young shooters get to know these fine guns.
 
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Yes, the model 12's and A5's have come down some depending on the model (or maybe now priced where they should be) because of no choke tubes and "steel shot incompatibility". But I am one who also agrees choke tubes are very often not needed. I only have 4 shotguns that take choke tubes. I tend to use modified in them and never change them. Regarding the older guns such as the model 12 and A5, I know several who use them for waterfowl after having the chokes opened up. They have had no problems and the guns haven't suffered. I have a Belgian A5 from 1953. It came with a spare Japanese vent rib barrel. I opened the choke up and have used steel through it. I know of a couple of guys who are shooting steel through the older A5's with the original Belgian barrels and have had no issues. So some of this becomes "what you hear" as opposed to what "you actually see". But hey, it keeps the prices down for buyers.
 
Look at it this way. What young guy today dreams of owning a model 12 or A5 as many of us did as kids
Yes the steel shot killed most of them for sure
There are a few die hards left using them but not guys that are going to pay any big money for them unless it is very rare or NIB and they collect them
Unless you have a sweet 16 A5 or small gauge model 12 they seem to be on the EE quite a while now even priced reasonable
Cheers
 
Well im of the younger crowd ( at least i still think i am) and my main use shotguns are a 20 ga A5 and a Model 12 heavy duck. But i recognize i am in the minority of my age group....
 
^^^^^^ exactly this point made above.

All collectables generally lose value as the generation who drove their prices age. While there are exceptions, this trend exists for cars, motorcycles, etc.. Unless "rodded" '20's - 50's cars seem to be losing appeal, same for '80's motorcycles.

For shotguns, the appeal of removable chokes has changed the market for sure. And finally, there does not seem to be a strong market for quality shot ties in Canada. My opinion.
 
3macs1 said:
Look at it this way. What young guy today dreams of owning a model 12 or A5 as many of us did as kids
Yes the steel shot killed most of them for sure
There are a few die hards left using them but not guys that are going to pay any big money for them unless it is very rare or NIB and they collect them
Unless you have a sweet 16 A5 or small gauge model 12 they seem to be on the EE quite a while now even priced reasonable
Cheers
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Me, me, me!

I've currently got 3(ish) Auto-5s and if there's a shotgun I shoot better, I've yet to find it. The one below is the perfect waterfowl gun for me. A Magnum Twelve with a 26" barrel with Poly-Choke and a round knob Belgian stock.

12032072_10206549742975955_5415948858418729008_n_zpsm5rsld7r.jpg


That said, I've seen a lot lately that I'd consider overpriced, especially considering about 75% of them have cracked forearms which the seller says "is normal" :rolleyes:. The 30" Full barrels don't help as well as the Magnum Twelves being picky about cycling 2 3/4" field lead loads. I've owned almost as many Auto-5s as I have fingers and I don't think I've ever paid more than $500 and some have been fairly desirable configurations. A lot of people complain about the weight of them too but I don't find it to be too much of an issue, especially in a waterfowl gun.

Cory
 
I'm 35 years old and although when I started out with firearms about 3 years ago I was keen on the black plastic firearms only I quickly came to find that the "older" designs were of much more interesting to shoot and had a better feel to them. To put it mildly I've had the chance to try a remarkably huge variety of shotguns ranging from bullpup semi-auto K12 puma to my Winchester 1897 riot gun. My favorite choke is a C-lect choke by mossberg (will try polychoke soon) because it's so easy to adjust and most of my hunting is small game and not waterfowl (although bismuth rounds are ok for these too).

At the last shotgun competition I came in first using my black hatsan escort semi-auto shooting 45/50 and topping the second place shooter who had 41/50 in a group of about 25 people. Problem is although the shotgun is extremely effective I find it dull (and a little too easy), and braging rights are a little thin when you're using a modern design. In comparison I've outshoot people with 50 years experience and $2000 shotguns with ease using my reproduction lever 1887, usually pulling 38-40/50. Also about a year ago I took 7th place out of 77 using an Ithaca model 37 pump with a score of 41/50 as I recall. Although it was far from first I took more pleasure beating out 70 other people with $2000-$4000 over-under shotguns (including the original owner who ended up on my squad) vs the $200 ithaca and I enjoyed shooting more as there was a fair amount more skill involved in the high speed doubles.

I just purchased a 109 year old model 1897 Winchester with poly choke on this site (it's arriving soon) and my goal for the year is to use it to win a major local event. If nothing else it makes things sporting for the other guys :) I also have a Winchester 1912 which I love to shoot...has the best pumping sound of anything I've tried...sounds like tap dancing on a glass table and is music to my ears. In comparison my modern Winchester SXP sounds like a dead body falling down stairs...no life in it at all.
 
"Customer support" is another contributing issue. Models 12 run great and for a long time mostly. BUT when they go sour it becomes apparent that the old time model 12 Mechanics are no longer with us. Great gun but when it comes to adjusting sleeves and chamber ring reaming no one is able to do it anymore. The old Auto 5 is a great gun but it's inability to shoot all loads without adjustment is a definite detractor. This fact doesn't bother me much as I feel you should set it and forget it by buying the same load for all purposes you may use it for. This works but versatility will suffer. I would feel the value of a super clean field grade Model 12 is about 300.00. The same super clean field grade Auto 5 would be 400.00. Magnums in each model would up the amount by 200.00 and 100.00 respectively. I speak from experience on the model 12. I spent hours and lots of money on a late (1956) 16 gauge and an early 1960 Heavy Duck just to get them to work. Parts are scarce and mostly used. In the end I was so frustrated I got them to work and sold them for half of what I had in them. Auto 5 models always work they just need to be understood that they don't work reliably without some load adjustment from time to time. I believe these factors affect the value more than anything.

Darryl
 
With more modern options available particularly for the Auto 5 there are fewer of them being used. Add in steel unfriendly barrels and choking, less available expertise to fix them and the general complexity of both models they've become more collector's items that practical field shotguns. A 28 gauge Model 12 Skeet gun in perfect condition will still command a premium price because it's collectable but even a gently-used 12 gauge field model goes wanting because fewer people care to use them in the field.

You see the same phenomenon with certain over/unders like the Browning Superposed. High-grade models and subgauge guns are still desirable but the prices have dropped on the field grade guns.
 
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madtrapper143 said:
"Customer support" is another contributing issue. Models 12 run great and for a long time mostly. BUT when they go sour it becomes apparent that the old time model 12 Mechanics are no longer with us. Great gun but when it comes to adjusting sleeves and chamber ring reaming no one is able to do it anymore. The old Auto 5 is a great gun but it's inability to shoot all loads without adjustment is a definite detractor. This fact doesn't bother me much as I feel you should set it and forget it by buying the same load for all purposes you may use it for. This works but versatility will suffer. I would feel the value of a super clean field grade Model 12 is about 300.00. The same super clean field grade Auto 5 would be 400.00. Magnums in each model would up the amount by 200.00 and 100.00 respectively. I speak from experience on the model 12. I spent hours and lots of money on a late (1956) 16 gauge and an early 1960 Heavy Duck just to get them to work. Parts are scarce and mostly used. In the end I was so frustrated I got them to work and sold them for half of what I had in them. Auto 5 models always work they just need to be understood that they don't work reliably without some load adjustment from time to time. I believe these factors affect the value more than anything.

Darryl
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The customer support part I think is huge. Nobody seems to fix their own guns today.I have never seen so many gun owners actually scared to take their firearms apart
I think that is a big part. When we bought these guns many moons ago we had no choice but to tear into them when something went wrong and eventually we would fix it and that was without the resources available today.Just with the internet alone is all any gun owners should need
The old time model mechanics I knew were owners most of them. We are seeing the same thing with our old chevys. We could not get anyone to rebuild a Muncie 4spd last winter even the trans shops and finally did it ourselves. Something I have not done in 25 plus years but like riding a bike all comes back pretty quick
Cheers
 
The values of the fixed full choke 2/34" 12 gauge guns have gone down. They are hunting shotguns that cannot really be used for waterfowl out of the box. They also lack a vent rib.
 
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