Application taking too long? TRY THIS !!!!!!! Mandamus

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RYoung

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So, I'm closing in on 24 months waiting for my PAL/RPAL being approved. I passed both practical courses and written with 98% each. I filled out my application honestly and even included that I had a peace bond issued to me 3 years ago (from time of taking the course) and if they had any questions to contact me. I call in monthly to my local (BC) CFO, and I'm told the CFO has it, They're swamped with applications, it's gone off for additional screening, it shouldn't be much longer please be patient, etc. etc. So I emailed the CCFR to see if they have any suggestions. They suggested I try to contact my local MP, which I had already done. They suggested if email doesn't work, to try showing up in person. If talks with my local MP don't work out, then I could take the RCMP to court. I asked what I would take them to court over. This was their response:
"The legal action would be an application called Mandamus, literally a court order to the RCMP to do their statutory duty/government function (in this case giving you a decision on your PAL application instead of continuing to sit on it). You would need an administrative law lawyer, or a senior civil litigator, in your jurisdiction for this. Hopefully an in-person visit to your MP’s office will be fruitful and you can avoid having to resort to legal measures. This is why we need an ombudsman for the CFP.

I wish you the best of luck in your quest!"

I have not yet confronted the CFO with this knowledge yet, but next week when I call in to check on the status of my application, I will inform them that I know of this order, and if I do not hear from them by October 31st, I will seek legal guidance on getting this order to court so I can FINALLY get an answer.

I hope this helps. Spread the word. Keep this post near the top to help newbies who are frustrated and looking for help.
 
If you waited 2 years already, why give them another month? Also, probably not a good idea to threaten the rcmp with anything - just take them to court and say your case there.
 
RYoung said:
I have not yet confronted the CFO with this knowledge yet, but next week when I call in to check on the status of my application, I will inform them that I know of this order, and if I do not hear from them by October 31st, I will seek legal guidance on getting this order to court so I can FINALLY get an answer.
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Ya I'm sure you'll have the girl answering the phone shaking in her boots :rolleyes:
 
Lookingforantiques said:
If you waited 2 years already, why give them another month? Also, probably not a good idea to threaten the rcmp with anything - just take them to court and say your case there.
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I want to give them a chance to do the right thing and do their job so I don't have to drag them to court and go through all that crap. Also, perhaps their waiting on the election results to see if we have a pro-gun or anti-gun government. Also it's not so much a threat, since it's just me saying, "I know how to make you do your job since you're not doing it". It's not like I'm threatening to break their legs or anything.

aglo said:
Well, nobody will be shaking in their boots but she will pass the message up and somebody will probably dig his application out of the pile and action it.
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My plan exactly. The person answering the phone could care less what I have to say, but the CFO who reads that letter might have a skip in his heartbeat when he realizes his vacation is over and it's time to get back to work.
 
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OkayShooter said:
If you waited 2 years, maybe take it a sign as you not getting it? Because I got mine in a month.
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I've searched a few different forums and found that one person waited 33 months. Mind you, he did move provinces, so I'm thinking that put a dent in the process. But the online status for my application still reads "Your application is in progress" and every time I call the CFO's office, I'm told that the CFO has it and to please be patient. I'm hoping they're not giving me false hope, but if they are, I'll find out one way or the other by mentioning the writ of mandamus. I'm just hoping I don't need to take them to court to squeeze an answer from them.
 
An update:

I did call the CFO's office yesterday morning. a very bright, happy woman answered my call, I gave here my info so she could pull up my file as requested. She told me the CFO is looking at it. I told here I've been waiting for almost 2 years. She asked if there was anything that would be of concern? I told her that I had a peace bond issued, but that was years ago and I disclosed it on my application. Other than that, no violence or weapons charges or anything of that nature. She told me they're usually quite thorough with newer applicants. Often, they will need to confirm information or acquire more information from other departments, which could prolong the process. I told her that I've been on the forums, and I've seen people getting their license recently within a couple of months and that I've been told I should get a writ of mandamus. I told her I don't want to have to take them to court, but 2 years is a stupid amount of time to be waiting and all I want to do is go duck hunting. I told her how my bosses want to take me out, and I got my hunters number last year, and the last thing I'm waiting for is my PAL so I can supply my own firearm and ammo. She said that she will include that in her note to the CFO, and once they read it, they should do something sooner than later. She followed the call up by telling me not to hesitate should I need to get in touch with them and to keep calling for updates.

I was thinking about giving them a deadline and how that might make them see red and stamp my application with the "declined" stamp. So I made them aware of my discomfort, I told them that I was told about mandamus and that I don't want to have to take that route, and I told them my intentions loud and clear. I've done pretty much everything I can do without spending more money and resources by taking them to court or protesting or anything like that. I just hope they pick up their heels. Duck season is quickly approaching.
 
Update:

I got a call from the CFO today informing me that my application was approved and reminding me to keep the peace and be of good nature. Only took them 25 months, but hey, at least they're screening people, right?
 
glad it all worked out for you, I've shot with people that deserve to have the privilege and I've shot with people that snuck through the cracks and really shouldn't have been granted the privilege, every province is different but even so it should only take 30 days max to approve or deny an application.
 
I havent seen this, however some laws have an a time limit identified to issue permits. Has anyone seen such a time limit in the Act?
 
Hey RYoung, I too am in the same boat, coming up to 16 months. I feel your pain. Would you mind including me in any further updates?

Cheers!

Never mind, I just saw that you were approved! Congrats man!!
 
yodave said:
glad it all worked out for you, I've shot with people that deserve to have the privilege and I've shot with people that snuck through the cracks and really shouldn't have been granted the privilege, every province is different but even so it should only take 30 days max to approve or deny an application.
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Thank you. Yes, there are some that do slip through the cracks, or pick up bad habits. And I agree that the application review should be limited, however, I do believe that they should be allowed to prolong the time to review if red flags are raised, and they should call you and keep you updated, instead of leaving you in the dark and have you spend 45 minutes on hold to ask a question, only to be given a very vague response. Oh well, I guess we just have to ride the boat we're on and hope the tide changes, we'll see.


Steverz said:
Hey RYoung, I too am in the same boat, coming up to 16 months. I feel your pain. Would you mind including me in any further updates?

Cheers!

Never mind, I just saw that you were approved! Congrats man!!
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Steverz, It's a rough go. I got this really nice woman answer the phone about a month ago, she listened to me, I told her I just wanted to go hunting, I've been waiting for ages, told her someone told me about a writ of mandamus, and I didn't want it to go to court, but 2 years is an insane amount of time to wait. About a month passed and I got a call from the CFO saying they wanted to talk to me. I don't know if it was the note the kind woman left for the CFO, or if it was the mention of the writ of mandamus that got the CFO to call me, but they did. We had a bit of a chat, he said he'd review our conversation, call my references if he feels it's necessary, then hopefully have an answer. a few weeks later, he's calling to inform me it was approved. It's a massive weight off my shoulders, and I'm glad it's off. I'm sure you've heard them say there's been a surge in applications and it's slowing down the office. It's possible that's what's prolonging the process, but if you got a squeaky history, no problems or anything like that, it shouldn't be much longer. Best of luck.
 
@RYoung - Happy and a bit jealous you finally got approved. I hope mine does not go that long. They have had my app since March 21 2019. I called them once a few days after it appeared online (April 11 2019) just to make sure all was well. Was told all was good and just waiting for picture to be scanned.

Called the BC CFO in June and was told it would be "at least" two more months. But now going on over 4 months since then and nothing moving. I have nothing violent on my CPIC. Just a theft charge from almost 40 years ago.(1982) One thing that i wonder about is if they ran the VPD record check, did they get anything? (like i said only thing in CPIC is from 40yrs ago) But several years ago i had to get a clearance for work. When i picked up from VPD i was confused by seeing some recent charges. Turns out there is someone with a similar name to mine. They gave me the wrong record. Just wonder if they did the same thing for the firearms program.

When the CFO called you, what kind of questions did they ask you? How long was the call?
 
Fill out an access to info. Request, using an ID as proof so you don't have to pay.

Enquire into what data Rcmp has on you.

Within a few months at most you will get a PDF CD in the mail
 
Blintok57 said:
@RYoung - Happy and a bit jealous you finally got approved. I hope mine does not go that long. They have had my app since March 21 2019. I called them once a few days after it appeared online (April 11 2019) just to make sure all was well. Was told all was good and just waiting for picture to be scanned.

Called the BC CFO in June and was told it would be "at least" two more months. But now going on over 4 months since then and nothing moving. I have nothing violent on my CPIC. Just a theft charge from almost 40 years ago.(1982) One thing that i wonder about is if they ran the VPD record check, did they get anything? (like i said only thing in CPIC is from 40yrs ago) But several years ago i had to get a clearance for work. When i picked up from VPD i was confused by seeing some recent charges. Turns out there is someone with a similar name to mine. They gave me the wrong record. Just wonder if they did the same thing for the firearms program.

When the CFO called you, what kind of questions did they ask you? How long was the call?
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Thank you. I'm sure having someone with the same name will cause some confusion. Happened when I bought my truck, and to this day, they still mix me up with the other 3 people with the same first and last name as me.
But when the CFO called, I had to verify I am who I am, just like calling into the call center. They then asked if I'm working, who I work for, if I use drugs or alcohol, if I have any history of mental illness, etc. Then asked what happened to have a peace bond issued to me. I explained what happened, he then asked "what have you done to prove to me that you are worthy of having your application approved?". I told him I'm trying to move on from that dark chapter of my life, focusing on myself and the career path I've chosen. He said he would review our conversation, call my references if he feels it's necessary, then have a decision soon.
It was a massive weight off my shoulders to hear him say it was approved. I'm not sure what the call center rep writes down on the notes to the CFO, and I'm wondering if mentioning that I've been invited out hunting, or even mentioning the writ of mandamus made a difference, but it couldn't hurt to ask them to throw that info at the rep and hopefully they'll pass it onto the CFO. Who knows. But I wish you the best of luck.
 
Did you receive your license in the mail yet? I wrote the BC CFO a letter (been waiting since March 2018) and the next week I got approved (Oct 2nd). But I'm still waiting for my license to arrive so I don't know what gives...
 
Silencio said:
Did you receive your license in the mail yet? I wrote the BC CFO a letter (been waiting since March 2018) and the next week I got approved (Oct 2nd). But I'm still waiting for my license to arrive so I don't know what gives...
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I got my license in the mail 1 week after I received the call from the CFO. Which is odd, I thought it would take longer since it was remembrance day long weekend. Unless it was approved before the CFO called me?? I'm not sure. But if you're really eager to buy something, you can call in, ask for your license number and expiration, and buy online.
 
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