APRA New Member Question

Trevor60

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My nephew has taken an interest in F class shooting and would like to look into the sport. Do you folks have an intro seminar similiar to the ORA and or intro days where a new shooter could participate (but does not own a rifle)

I have given them a contact name in the APRA but any additional info would be greatly appreciated.

Trevor
 
If a person needs a club to test hand loads at 300m with rifle, play with shotgun and handguns at short range ad also stretch the rifles out to 900m is the Buffalo Target shooters association at homestead the answer for me?
 
If a person needs a club to test hand loads at 300m with rifle, play with shotgun and handguns at short range ad also stretch the rifles out to 900m is the Buffalo Target shooters association at homestead the answer for me?

Quick answer is 'no'. What you'll find is that different associations (user groups) under the APRA umbrella are responsible for different ranges, due to the disciplines they shoot. Please see the following link that outlines what firearms are permitted on which ranges:

http://www.albertarifle.com/homestead.htm

The User Group link explains what shooting disciplines the different associations practice. The BTSA has oversight of the 'action' range and is primarily a pistol group, Fullbore the 900m rifle range, Swiss the 300m rifle range, and Rosebud the 300 yd benchrest & 500m silhouette rifle ranges. Hope this helps.
 
My nephew has taken an interest in F class shooting and would like to look into the sport. Do you folks have an intro seminar similiar to the ORA and or intro days where a new shooter could participate (but does not own a rifle)

I have given them a contact name in the APRA but any additional info would be greatly appreciated.

Trevor

Happy to have him come out and give it a try. We have three intro days each year - May 11, July 14 and Sept 14 are the dates for 2013. We do 2 sighters and 10 shots for score each on the 400m and 800m positions, doing the scoring and target indications just like a real match - it's sort of an ice breaker to see if people are interested in long range competition, without having to fully join up or start cold in a match. There's a safety briefing and and an orientation up front to explain scoring and how the shoot is conducted. Arrangements might be made for someone to bring out a spare rifle, but we don't have any 'club guns'.
 
So where do all these disciplines do load development? Why is this so difficult to get a straight answer on what I can shoot where?
 
So where do all these disciplines do load development? Why is this so difficult to get a straight answer on what I can shoot where?

I agree. I wanna try shooting at longer ranges but they make it sound like unless you are fulltime long range shooter there to take part in a match, you are not welcome.

where can I practice at longer range around calgary, 500 yard or more? I wouldn't mind driving for couple of hours if I have to.
 
So where do all these disciplines do load development? Why is this so difficult to get a straight answer on what I can shoot where?

Scout gave you the answer. You have to join multiple clubs to do what you want.

For example, I shoot F class on the Homestead range (400m - 900m firing points). to do this I need an Alberta Provincial Rifle Association (APRA) membership and a Alberta Fullbore Rifle Association (AFRA) membership. I do my load development at the Rosebud range next door. To have access to Rosebud you must purchase both an APRA and Rosebud Benchrest and Silhouette (Rosebud) club memberships.

The APRA is an umbrella organization made up of numerous clubs. You only have to pay one set of APRA dues no matter how many member clubs you join.

If you want to shoot handgun at the homestead complex you need to join the APRA and the Buffalo Target Shooters Association. (BTSA). BTSA maintains several handgun ranges and a 200m range for restricted rifles.

So, in short, to do what you want to do at Homestead (short range/load development, long range rifle, and handgun) you will require the following four memberships: APRA (umbrella for insurance); AFRA, Rosebud and BTSA.

There are also two free public ranges, a 100m rifle range and a shotgun range (an open space to throw clays without any facilities).

I hope this answers your question.
 
I wanna try shooting at longer ranges but they make it sound like unless you are fulltime long range shooter there to take part in a match, you are not welcome.
You are not alone in forming this impression, and this is unfortunate. Those of us already "in the game" somehow have to figure out a way to convince people like you, who have gear and have an interest in shooting at longer ranges, that by and large you should come out and shoot with us.

Part of your impression is mistaken, part of your impression is simply due to the nature of long range shooting, and perhaps a small left over part probably has a kernel of truth to it.

THE NATURE OF LONG RANGE SHOOTING

By and large you can't see a bullet hole at long range. This simple fact of atmospheric optics has a pretty substantial influence on how organized long range shooting events end up being conducted, and how "friendly" or "accessible" they are perceived by other shooters. To allow the shooters to see their bullet holes, we have a person (either hired for they day, or a shooter taking his turn) mark the targets by inserting a disc & spindle into the shot hole. We use physically large targets, which typically have to be set up and taken down every day. This means we need to be relatively organized, in the sense that the event as a whole needs a definite "start" and "finish" time. Long range shooting events end up not having the "walk up" character that is feasible with so many other kinds of shooting, and I think this this turns off many people

UNLESS YOU ARE ... THERE TO TAKE PART IN A MATCH, YOU ARE NOT WELCOME

I can easily see why people get this impression. To set up, run, and shoot a long range shooting event takes a fair bit of commitment and effort, therefore it's pretty easy to get the impression that most of the people at the range are pretty hardcore. In one sense they are, in the sense that they absolutely love long range shooting and they put a lot of time effort and thought into it. But "hardcore" does not mean "hardass"... despite outward appearances (and boy do we have our share of "characters"!!!), I think I can honestly say that the culture of long range shooters is remarkably open and giving. I have heard that in some competitive shooting disciplines, shooters are very jealous of their own success, will not share their route to success with others, and will even play "games" or sabotage the advancement of their fellow competitors. I have no idea if those things are true in some forms of shooting, but I do know that it is absolutely not the case in competitive long range target rifle shooting. You can (and I have done this) literally walk up to a world champion or an international giant of the sport, strike up a conversation, and be treated magnificently. You can ask anybody what ammo/barrel/etc they are using, and how you can make your ammo better - they'll tell you, and if you use it against them and outshoot them, they'll be smiling just as much as you are.

Another comment - on most organizations' calendars, you'll see most or even all long range events are labelled as "matches". This is because we have comparatively few opportunities to put on long range events throughout the year, basically one or two weekend days from late spring to early fall, and since it takes a lot of overhead and effort to open up and run the range for the day. the thought process goes, maybe rightly, maybe wrongly, "why waste all that effort on running/shooting a practice?". An outsider/newcomer naturally asks, "where are the practices? I can't shoot a 'match' until I have set my gear up, practiced a bit, and am good enough to be able to shoot a 'match' without embarrassing myself". The truth of it is, you should think of a "match" as simply "this is a day I can do some long range shooting". It is simply some long range shooting being done in a somewhat structured format. Some of this structure is intrinsically necessary (i.e. organizing when firing is happening, when we change shooting distances, when we swap people from the firing line to the target line). Some of this structure is not inherently necessary, for example "we're now going to fire 2 sighters and 10 shots on score at 600 yards", that's there because that's what most of the people out there are agreeable to doing -- if you want a different format, it is pretty straightforward to organize a different shooting format, if you are willing to volunteer as an event director or if you are able to sweet-talk somebody else into doing so.

KERNEL OF TRUTH

If I am to be honest with you, there probably is a small kernel of truth to your observations. Because a lot of effort is involved in running a long range shooting day, there ends up being a certain amount of bias in favour of "serious" or "important" shooting and this unfortunately manifests itself as a mild negative attitude towards "unserious" shooting (long range plinking; shooting without keeping score; shooting a rifle that was not built as a competition rifle). This is unfortunate, it is wrong, and it is not doing shooting any favours. Until are ranges and our events are so full that we need to figure out how to turn people away, we need to work against this and we need to welcome any and all who are interested in doing some long range shooting.

COME OUT AND SHOOT

It sounds like a lot of work and a bit of an uphill battle to make your schedule fit what's available/offered by your local Provincial Rifle Association or shooting organization that has a long distance range. But if you have an interest in shooting a rifle at longer ranges, the best way that I know of to learn long range shooting and then advance towards mastery of long range shooting, is to take up shooting "matches" with your local long range club/association.
 
I agree. I wanna try shooting at longer ranges but they make it sound like unless you are fulltime long range shooter there to take part in a match, you are not welcome.

where can I practice at longer range around calgary, 500 yard or more? I wouldn't mind driving for couple of hours if I have to.

It is an unfortunate reality but the AFRA / Homestead range are simply not set up as a drop in facility for the general public. For insurance reasons the range is locked and access is restricted to members in good standing. Even members in good standing are not guaranteed unsupervised access tot the range. To get a range key you must have attended a RSO course, shoot at least four match days and show up for one range work party day. You need to demonstrate safe gun handling and some knowledge of long range shooting etiquette before you earn a key.

You can call us an exclusive club if you want but we don't hand out keys in the first instance. It's not about keeping newbies away, it's about preserving our range and keeping the CFO satisfied that we have a handle on things.

Fullbore shooting is not conducive to do it yourself drop in shooting.

THe AFRA hosts two new shooter days a year. See the thread with the schedule for dates. Otherwise you need to sign up as a member.

New shooters are welcome at all our matches. There are also normally practice days every Friday morning all summer. Any member in good standing is welcome at the practice sessions.
As Daniel above, yes we call them matches on the weekends throughout the summer but they pretty informal events and I am sure that everyone present will go out of their way to help out new shooters. I've lost track of the number of times we've loaned out equipment or taken some extra time to help the new guy get sorted out.
 
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Thank you guys for addressing my concern and explaining in such detail, I really appreciate it. I agree with you guys that you don't want general public to go in there and shoot their old TVs(I have picked couple up at public range myself so I know). I still have couple things bugging me, first I need competition equipment(rifle)? Coz I have inexpensive savage 338(don't wanna call it cheap coz I had to save a year before I could buy it) coz $3000+ rifles are out of budget. Second, I would join rosebud for 'practice' till I'm ready to go further and be able to afford proper equipment but I need a referral from a member and being new to not only Calgary but Canada I don't have any friends in this sport let alone the club. Without that I can't even get application form. I know some people feel like telling me to stay home then...but stupid love for this sport won't let me, my wife would love that though.
 
PG and RNBRA thank you! I am very thankful for the positive twist on our questions and the scenario at hand. Looking forward to spring? My only other question pertains to rifles.... If my .308 chassis set-up is over the weight can I still shoot the "matches"? And with my 300 wm, can I shoot it with a break on non match days?
 
Thank you guys for addressing my concern and explaining in such detail, I really appreciate it. I agree with you guys that you don't want general public to go in there and shoot their old TVs(I have picked couple up at public range myself so I know). I still have couple things bugging me, first I need competition equipment(rifle)? Coz I have inexpensive savage 338(don't wanna call it cheap coz I had to save a year before I could buy it) coz $3000+ rifles are out of budget. Second, I would join rosebud for 'practice' till I'm ready to go further and be able to afford proper equipment but I need a referral from a member and being new to not only Calgary but Canada I don't have any friends in this sport let alone the club. Without that I can't even get application form. I know some people feel like telling me to stay home then...but stupid love for this sport won't let me, my wife would love that though.

I'll address the "competition equipment" question first. You do not require a "competition rifle" or any special equipment to shoot long range with us at Homestead. What you do need is a rifle with iron sights or a scope (magnification is unimportant) and safe ammunition. I have seen shooters using light barrel hunting rifles and what have you. Just set your expectations realistically. If you show up with an SKS and surplus ammo you are not likely to hit the target at 900m and will leave frustrated and disappointed. You can and will hit the target with a good hunting rifle although you may not be competitive in a match. There will be plenty of people present willing to lend a hand getting you set up and on target if need be. If you won't come out until you think you can win the first time out, we'll probably never see you. theres a learning curve, so come out and start learning.

More to come ....

Some equipment that you might want to use if you have it available:
- sling and jacket with padded elbows (if you are going to shoot prone unsupported)
- front rest or bipod (F class)
- Rear bag or bean bag (something to support the underside of your stock at the rear)
- ground sheet or shooting mat.

Before you drop a pile of $ on gun and gear come out and try it with what you have. You'll have a much better idea of what works and what does not by observing and by talking to the other shooters. Also, if you come out and find you don't enjoy fullbore prone shooting you have not spent a pile of $ on stuff you're never going to use again. Once you know what you need there are lots of opportunities to pick up used items in the EE here on CGN or by word of mouth.

Don't get all hung up on having the right gear or a competition rifle. For all anyone will care you can shoot prone unsupported using a scoped hunting rifle or shoot an iron sighted Mosin Nagant off a pedestal rest. It's entirely up to you. The only caveats are that your gun and ammo must be safe and that if you are going to compete in the matches and want to be eligible for prizes, your gun and equipment be compliant with the rules.

If you want to shoot something that falls outside the rules it will probably be permitted by the match director so long as it's safe and reasonable and you ask ahead of time. Just don't bring a .50 BMG with a giant gill brake or Browning 1919 on a tripod and expect to shoot either alongside the other participants. .338 Lapua rifles are welcome so long as you shoot it without a brake.

FYI, Homestead is templated to a max of .338 Lapua. .50 BMG is not permitted by the CFO.
 
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As far as how to join Rosebud without a reference, I am not on the executive so I can only offer a suggestion.

I do not know why the club has a requirement for a reference. I recommend that you make contact with the APRA by email at membership@albertarifle.com even if you do not have a reference. Attach a letter explaining your circumstances and why you want to join Rosebud. Ask that the membership person forward your letter to the Rosebud executive for consideration. Don;t delay though. Rosebud quite often has very few memberships available to new members. The membership is capped and if every current member renews there are no new openings available. Any available spaces are always filled by the end of January or earlier.
 
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PG and RNBRA thank you! I am very thankful for the positive twist on our questions and the scenario at hand. Looking forward to spring? My only other question pertains to rifles.... If my .308 chassis set-up is over the weight can I still shoot the "matches"? And with my 300 wm, can I shoot it with a break on non match days?

Ok, here are the answers to your questions.

Yes you can still shoot your rig even if it's overweight. If it's a .308 it has to be under 18.2 lbs including all attachments (bipod, scope, etc.) to be eligible for prizes at a match. If it's between 18.2 and 22.0 lbs you will be put into open class and are then eligible for any prizes in the open class. If it's more than 22 lbs you will still be permitted to shoot but will be shooting for fun only and are not eligible for prizes. FYI, prizes are normally little plaques and medallions, trinkets, not 6' tall trophies.

As far as your muzzle brake goes, you will probably get away with using it for the first couple of times you come out. After that you will be asked to remove it or cease using that rifle. Muzzle brakes are not permitted in competition and we strongly recommend removing them for practice out of consideration for the people beside you. Remember, you'll be lying on the ground with the muzzle of your rifle a few feet away from the face of the shooter beside you. We don't object to them because they offer a competitive advantage. It's because the brake sends all the hot gas and pressure straight at the shooter next to you. Getting blasted by the next gun's brake all day makes for a miserable experience and concussion (pressure) headaches for everyone on either side. Its all about consideration for the people next to you. Would you want to be blasted by a brake all day?
 
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Prairie guy I really appreciate your help. I knew it there was a good reason to join this site and that's to be able to talk to people like you. thank you for explaining everything. I will send my application today and hopefully they will accept it.
 
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