ar-15 trigger decisions
- Thread starter pspearn
- Start date
I can't count how many times I have swapped triggers around trying to find the "best" for me . I'm one of those idiots who can't leave well enough alone
First think you need to decide if you want single stage or 2 stage . I am slowly changing all my fun ARs to single stage ( CMC , Timney , Geissele SD3G...awesome choice but bit pricy )
All my bench ARs are getting 2 stage ( Geissle Hi Speed, SSA-E , RRA 2 stage )
First off, yes its easy to safely and reliably do a trigger job on mil spec , but reality is its often apples and orange comparison
See pics below showing the engagement surface of mil spec vs ( in this example, Hi Speed ). Unless you are overzelous with stone you are not passing the thickness of the surface hardening
I actually prefer sitting in front of TV dry firing using lapping compound
IT is easy to change the squareness / angle of the engagement surface with a stone .
Bottom line is you can only do "so much" to improve the mil spec style
Engagement surface is the front of the trigger / near pivot point of hammer
By comparison, the trigger geometry is totally different in this example ( Geissle Hi Speed....the RRA 2 stage is similar geometry )
Engagement surface is top of the trigger , back of the hammer
This is why these style triggers feel totally different ( better or worst is matter of opinion )
Here is RRA 2 Stage with similar geometry
Trigger Job on Mil Spec
I press the easy button, by spending the $10 US ( = zillion Canadian now ) and install the JP yellow spring kit
Only warning is if you are using lower for 7.62X39 surplus, the yellow hammer spring is not the best choice
They have a optional "Red" spring that does not make it that much heavier
http:// w.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/trigger-hardware/trigger-springs/ar-15-reduced-power-spring-kit-prod7582.aspx
http:// ww.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/trigger-hardware/trigger-springs/ar-15-enhanced-reliability-spring-kits-prod32318.aspx
I ever so gently either stone or lap the engagement surface to remove uneven / grittiness caused by the machining tool marks
The weight off pull improvement is mainly from the springs
IMO best budget 2 stage
If you haven't bought your LPK yet, then get the RRA with 2 stage Match ( this way you are not buying mil spec group and tossing in drawer )
Follow these instructions . Again, if you want easy button , you can install the JP yellow spring kit into a RRA 2 Stage instead of following this guys tutorial
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=9&f=14&t=226069
You are hard pressed to tell the modded RRA 2 stage vs my SSA-E . Only reason I can tell from the Hi Speed is I have the Hi Speed Match which is silly light
Most people I have assembled lowers for find this setup plenty good enough
The lower priced aftermarket mil spec are IMO not as good as this setup for the reason explained above in the pictures of different trigger geometry
First think you need to decide if you want single stage or 2 stage . I am slowly changing all my fun ARs to single stage ( CMC , Timney , Geissele SD3G...awesome choice but bit pricy )
All my bench ARs are getting 2 stage ( Geissle Hi Speed, SSA-E , RRA 2 stage )
First off, yes its easy to safely and reliably do a trigger job on mil spec , but reality is its often apples and orange comparison
See pics below showing the engagement surface of mil spec vs ( in this example, Hi Speed ). Unless you are overzelous with stone you are not passing the thickness of the surface hardening
I actually prefer sitting in front of TV dry firing using lapping compound
IT is easy to change the squareness / angle of the engagement surface with a stone .
Bottom line is you can only do "so much" to improve the mil spec style
Engagement surface is the front of the trigger / near pivot point of hammer
By comparison, the trigger geometry is totally different in this example ( Geissle Hi Speed....the RRA 2 stage is similar geometry )
Engagement surface is top of the trigger , back of the hammer
This is why these style triggers feel totally different ( better or worst is matter of opinion )
Here is RRA 2 Stage with similar geometry
Trigger Job on Mil Spec
I press the easy button, by spending the $10 US ( = zillion Canadian now ) and install the JP yellow spring kit
Only warning is if you are using lower for 7.62X39 surplus, the yellow hammer spring is not the best choice
They have a optional "Red" spring that does not make it that much heavier
http:// w.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/trigger-hardware/trigger-springs/ar-15-reduced-power-spring-kit-prod7582.aspx
http:// ww.brownells.com/rifle-parts/triggers-parts/trigger-hardware/trigger-springs/ar-15-enhanced-reliability-spring-kits-prod32318.aspx
I ever so gently either stone or lap the engagement surface to remove uneven / grittiness caused by the machining tool marks
The weight off pull improvement is mainly from the springs
IMO best budget 2 stage
If you haven't bought your LPK yet, then get the RRA with 2 stage Match ( this way you are not buying mil spec group and tossing in drawer )
Follow these instructions . Again, if you want easy button , you can install the JP yellow spring kit into a RRA 2 Stage instead of following this guys tutorial
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=9&f=14&t=226069
You are hard pressed to tell the modded RRA 2 stage vs my SSA-E . Only reason I can tell from the Hi Speed is I have the Hi Speed Match which is silly light
Most people I have assembled lowers for find this setup plenty good enough
The lower priced aftermarket mil spec are IMO not as good as this setup for the reason explained above in the pictures of different trigger geometry
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Yes, the cost is the main thing I'm advocating. Mil spec trigger, hammers and JP springs are far cheaper than most alternatives.
I'll continue to shoot thousands of rounds with stoned trigger jobs @ 3lbs. safely and without a slamfire. Those hammers and triggers are a lot harder than just surface hardened.
I know because I've reworked them and if they do screw up, [still waiting] I can just re-stone.
As usual, the skill of stoning triggers should be left to a competent smith. I've seen some YouTube vids of trigger jobs and the best they have done was reduce grittiness. Understanding hammer hooks, sear angles and disconnectors is another topic.
The pics you posted are excellent. Yes, the aftermarket triggers use different geometries and of course they are straight drop ins.
My first AR15 Windham in 7.62x39 arrives today and I'll see what happens with a stronger hammer spring. I've usually been able to get 3 - 3.5 lbs with the standard hammer spring in 5.56 guns.
I'll continue to shoot thousands of rounds with stoned trigger jobs @ 3lbs. safely and without a slamfire. Those hammers and triggers are a lot harder than just surface hardened.
I know because I've reworked them and if they do screw up, [still waiting] I can just re-stone.
As usual, the skill of stoning triggers should be left to a competent smith. I've seen some YouTube vids of trigger jobs and the best they have done was reduce grittiness. Understanding hammer hooks, sear angles and disconnectors is another topic.
The pics you posted are excellent. Yes, the aftermarket triggers use different geometries and of course they are straight drop ins.
My first AR15 Windham in 7.62x39 arrives today and I'll see what happens with a stronger hammer spring. I've usually been able to get 3 - 3.5 lbs with the standard hammer spring in 5.56 guns.
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Most guys running an AR are not likely to sit at a bench or belly shoot.
Action shooting, positional shooting or the like, they are better served by using and being proficient with a stock trigger.
If one sucks with a stock trigger, a 'match' quality one could do well to mask that suckiness, but really they need to work on marksmanship principles.
Action shooting, positional shooting or the like, they are better served by using and being proficient with a stock trigger.
If one sucks with a stock trigger, a 'match' quality one could do well to mask that suckiness, but really they need to work on marksmanship principles.
No argument from me. Most guys I know at my local club can't afford an aftermarket trigger. I mostly see Norc or DA AR's.
I'll be starting up some CQB matches there and most of them do fine with stock untouched triggers. The triggers will smooth themselves up after a 1,000 rounds, but usually stay @ 6-7 lbs pulls. I prefer a lighter trigger with less takeup, but that is just my preference.
I normally shoot bolt guns for belly and bench. AR's to me are action guns.
I'll be starting up some CQB matches there and most of them do fine with stock untouched triggers. The triggers will smooth themselves up after a 1,000 rounds, but usually stay @ 6-7 lbs pulls. I prefer a lighter trigger with less takeup, but that is just my preference.
I normally shoot bolt guns for belly and bench. AR's to me are action guns.
