Are 30-30 win the same as 30 wcf
- Thread starter sweet09
- Start date
Because you are new and interested, I'll give you some info regarding these different caliber markings.
30 WCF stands for Winchester Centre Fire.
30-30 would have been the black powder designation, 30 caliber-30 grns FFF powder.
Every time Winchester came out with a new cartridge or chambered their rifle for an existing cartridge they would suffix it with WCF.
Companies like Colt and Marlin took great exception to this practice and marked their rifles with the black powder designation, this is why we have today cartridges like the following;
30 WCF = 30-30 (even though it was never loaded with black powder)
25 WCF = 25-20 not to be confused with the 25-20 Single Shot or 25-35
32 WCF = 32-20 not to be confused with 32 Win Special or 32-40
38 WCF = 38-40 not to be confused with 38-55 or 38-56 or 38-72
44 WCF = 44-40
And then to make things even more fun Wichester stopped the WCF suffix and started marking their fifles with the BP designation. Also along the way they sometimes used both, just to piss off Colt and Marlin I think.
I have Wins with all three designations, 38 WCF, 38-40, 38-40 WCF
Then we add things like 32 WS..Winchester Special and 32-40
38-55, 38-72, 25-35 etc etc etc.............Some of which are followed by WCF on some rifles and some aren't.
If you aren't confused yet start collectin Wins !!
Douglas
30 WCF stands for Winchester Centre Fire.
30-30 would have been the black powder designation, 30 caliber-30 grns FFF powder.
Every time Winchester came out with a new cartridge or chambered their rifle for an existing cartridge they would suffix it with WCF.
Companies like Colt and Marlin took great exception to this practice and marked their rifles with the black powder designation, this is why we have today cartridges like the following;
30 WCF = 30-30 (even though it was never loaded with black powder)
25 WCF = 25-20 not to be confused with the 25-20 Single Shot or 25-35
32 WCF = 32-20 not to be confused with 32 Win Special or 32-40
38 WCF = 38-40 not to be confused with 38-55 or 38-56 or 38-72
44 WCF = 44-40
And then to make things even more fun Wichester stopped the WCF suffix and started marking their fifles with the BP designation. Also along the way they sometimes used both, just to piss off Colt and Marlin I think.
I have Wins with all three designations, 38 WCF, 38-40, 38-40 WCF
Then we add things like 32 WS..Winchester Special and 32-40
38-55, 38-72, 25-35 etc etc etc.............Some of which are followed by WCF on some rifles and some aren't.
If you aren't confused yet start collectin Wins !!
Douglas
- Location
- Ottawa origanally Muskoka
WRONG
30 WCF stands for 30 cal Winchester Centre Fire...(You got that right)
30-30 stands for 30 cal. 30 grains of SMOKELESS POWDER.....Winchester designed the 30 wcf/30 30 to be a smokeless cartridge right from day 1
30wcf cartridges were made by winchester.
30-30 cartridges were made by everyone else.
The black powder terminology was a carry over even though there were proprietary named cartridges in existence (eg.45 long colt) the standard method was to express cal and grain weight of powder and sometimes following that, grain weight of bullet as well. (eg. 45-70-400)
The 30-30 was the exception to all this in that it was never loaded by any commercial manufacturer with black powder.....even though it had a black powder terminology name. This was no doubt an effort to make the 30wcf/ 30-30 sound wimpy and give Winchester some bad publicity because winchester had a habit of pissing every other gun maker off most notably Marlin & Henry.
(I did notice that later on you mention that the 30-30 was not loaded with black powder however your first statement is rather misleading.)
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- Location
- Ottawa origanally Muskoka
To make things even worse many companies over stated their calibers and case capacities or reversed the caliber and powder weight numbers in their cartridges name. Some companies measured to the grove dia while others to the land dia when stating their caliber size.
For instance a 44-40(44wcf) has a grove Dia of .429"....but a 42-40 would sound like a vastly inferior cartridge to a 45 colt which is .451"
And most "38 cals" are actually 36 +/-cal....except 38-40(38wcf) which is actually 40 cal. But only holds 38 grains of powder.
The list of inconsistencies goes on and on.
Bittermansbro
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Correction, one is the 'proper' designation, the other.....meh, it can go away. I think we're all over the old marketing and branding ego's that caused it in the first place.
- Location
- Yellowknife, NWT
C-FBMI's statement was in no way misleading. "Would have been" indicates fully something that WAS NOT, though the potential existed.
Additionally, look into the meaning of the acronym "i.e." vs that of "e.g."
Additionally, look into the meaning of the acronym "i.e." vs that of "e.g."
- Location
- Ottawa origanally Muskoka
In a nut shell;
Volcanic arms employed Henry,Marlin, and other notable gun designers.
Volcanic went broke.
Wichester bailed out the company, Winchester then said;" I own everything so My name is going on all the guns."
This left Henry, and Marlin to redesign their own lever action rifles and finance their own companies or work anonymously for Winchester.
Guess which path they took.
- Location
- Ottawa origanally Muskoka
30-30 would have been the black powder designation, 30 caliber-30 grns FFF powder
This statement makes it sound as though at some earlier point, before the WCF designation the cartridge had been loaded with FFFG black powder.
That is correct.
30-30 never stood for 30gn black powder.
Winchester did however make 30-30 cartidges, it was just many, many years latter
Gentlemen:
I am aware, as stated, that the 30-30 was never loaded with BP. I was pointing out to the new fellow some of the anomalies in the old BP and transitional days cartridge designations.
The fact that in this singular case it designated smokeless adds even more confusion to the fray.
I am aware, as stated, that the 30-30 was never loaded with BP. I was pointing out to the new fellow some of the anomalies in the old BP and transitional days cartridge designations.
The fact that in this singular case it designated smokeless adds even more confusion to the fray.
