Army & Navy CSL London

ArmedGinger

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Old lady came in, her husband just passed away, wants us to sell his guns on consignment. There is debate on what this thing might be worth. I've seen restored ones go for $2000 USD, I've seen rough examples sell for $700 USD. But I have yet to see anything for sale in Canada. Blue book doesn't mean much but they state $750 as the lowest up to $10,000.


This is is rough. It's a 16 gauge Army & Navy CSL London Shotgun. Roughly made around 1880. Damascus barrels.

Is this thing worth $700? $150?

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Depends on how rough. The market is small for those who actually shoot damascus barrels and people aren't going to pay much for a wall hanger. If the bores have pitting rendering it useless for actual shooting, then you really have nothing but a wall hanger worth a couple of hundred. I think $700.00 as it is, if in shooting condition, is at the top of the range for Canada. Just my opinion. From the pics, the barrels sure look "large" for a 16 gauge. But I guess the first question is, how badly are the bores pitted? And how badly is the stocked cracked behind the lockplates as most of these guns that old with back action locks are cracked behind the plates.
I might add that there are so many variables to these old guns that are usually unknown before purchase that most buyers won't dish out a lot of money if those variables are not answered before purchase. If anyone buys these guns with the intent to restore (if possible), then the purchase better be the lowest cost aspect of the gun.
 
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A&NCSL records are held at the University of Glasgow. You should be able to determine to whom the gun was sold.
 
I sold a somewhat similar Army and Navy hammer gun last year. However mine had........
Close in serial number ( around 1902-1904) but mine had nitro proofed STEEL barrels with perfect bores
Rock solid lockup, perfect crisp locks
No previous metal polishing or buffing with original blueing at 90%+, perfect engraving, case colours at 50%
No cracks or significant marks in the wood, near perfect chequering, excellent stock finish
Perfect function, no problems or issues, a very attractive honest 85-90% gun, very basic grade but in exceptional condition in it's somewhat tired original case wih provenance on the original owner, a Royal Navy officer
I finally sold this fine gun, proofed and safe to use with modern ammo, for $1500 .
The gun in question, if restored to the condition of my gun would only be worth a max of $700-1000 because of the damascus barrels, probable black powder only proofs, basic original quality, non originality and lack of a case. Just a proper refinishing ( strip and clean, brown barrels, reblue hardware, raise wood dents, recut checkering, refinish wood) will cost that much or more.
If repairs are required figure an extra.....
Rejoint to tighten....... $350-500
Raise barrel dents......$100-250
IF the wall thickness permits, fine bore and hone to remove bore pitting...... $250-350. If the barrel walls are too thin to safely clean up the pitting the barrels are scrap and the gun is junk.
Stock cracks can cost $250-500. If the stock is too badly damaged from cracks or oil soaking to repair then a new stock is required and this can be $1000 and up.....way up.
You do the math, the potential maximum value of this gun does not warrant spending much on it and even if reconditioned to a presentable level it will be hard to sell. I handle a lot of these old doubles every year and as is, from the photos without being able to check the gun out I would pay $150-200 for it.
IF it is tight on face AND no serious bore pitting And no barrel bulges or bad dents AND no stock cracks I would look at $450-650, if it is ALSO nito proofed I would go perhaps $200 more and it would be a viable shooter as is.
Yes, the University Of Glasgow holds the remaining partial records for Army and Guns but they can only provide the year of manufacture, no other information. There is a quite hefty charge for this.
 
if the bores are not heavily pitted and the action fairly tight, probably around $300 locally. 16 guage guns go for a bit less because it is harder to get shells for them. Keep in mind I am talking about empty shells for reloading with black powder not loaded ammunition

cheers mooncoon
 
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