B.s.a. Cast alloy fore end

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Need some real verified info on this gun. 1917 f.t.r.
Ross butt stock-numbers matching. Alloy fore end with wooden insert. Definately cast piece-not something that bubba made up. Orangey brown paint. Have any and all pics avail. Gun is avail for sale at right price.
 
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Pictures are almost a MUST when asking questions for information.

SMELLIE has one. There have been some posts here on CGN about these fore ends.

One of the reasons they were not adopted is that they were VERY cold in the Winter.
 
I have had a couple of discussions about these with various people. The one that piqued my curiosity the most was a suggestion that these were made from obsolete stock duplicating masters.
 
It's funny that there would be, what, 3 now exactly the same? Seems like a strange coincidence. The master stock idea is a good idea but for me the Ross butts on all of them says Canadian or British government experiment. They've canibalized Ross rifles more than once (.22 trainers used their rear sights).
 
Our Governments might be cheap but they usually put out rifles in a little bit better knick than the examples that I have seen. The rough wood forearm always seem roughly fitted yet the alloy fore stock is machined at a angle and to me seems to be like a witness mark. Why a butt plate spacer fore grip? Personally I think more of a country gunsmith that took surplus items and fashioned them into a firearms.
 
The fire ends are all cut down sporter length too are they not? Do they show any signs of reshaping at the tip? I wonder if there is any way to get two of these rifles together for a side by side comparison. I'd like to know if they are original factory master stocks that wound up shortened. If they are that is a true shame as someone like you Mr E Moose or I could have taken full advantage of a really stiff full length casting for our own duplicators.

Maybe they are just put together but it still seems a strange set up. One thing wood and plastic both have a lot more of than the aluminum is flex. I wonder what these would shoot like.
 
What might answer a few questions is if we could see the butt socket markings along with the serial #'s on the 3 rifles. If they are prototypes then you would probably see the same manufacturer along with possible sequential serial #'s. The OP, smellie and whoever has the third rifle have the answers to this. No 1's that are twenty years apart = a put together ,on the other hand if they are from the same timeframe, manufacturer and have serial #'s that are close then they might be a prototype.
 
I've discussed this with Smellie several times. I believe if i remeber correctly the forend is cast and not machined. I'll have to give him a shout today and see if he can shed some light on this topic.
 
I think this old girl has been discussed multiple times in a few threads since 2013, when it first appeared as an experimental piece discussion years ago....

It's been assessed by Peter Laidler, Ian Skennerton, Roger Payne and many other Enfield collectors over the years....

There's possibly 3 of these things in private collections (2 in Canada and 1 in England I believe?), but I've not seen pictures of any others except for the one in the analysis thread above. There's dozens of pics online, but those pics seem to be duplicated (exact same pics) as presented from a separate member, so maybe there's only two of them in existence, and I don't think smellie has ever posted pics of his, which I'd love to see.

B.s.a. Co. 1917 sht le 111 (current discussion in progress)http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=52773

Lee Enfield Aluminum stock (old 2013 discussion)http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=45941

Hope that helps... :)

Regards,
Doug
 
BadgerDog said:
I think this old girl has been discussed multiple times in a few threads since 2013, when it first appeared as an experimental piece discussion years ago....

It's been assessed by Peter Laidler, Ian Skennerton, Roger Payne and many other Enfield collectors over the years....

There's possibly 3 of these things in private collections (2 in Canada and 1 in England I believe?), but I've not seen pictures of any others except for the one in the analysis thread above. There's dozens of pics online, but those pics seem to be duplicated (exact same pics) as presented from a separate member, so maybe there's only two of them in existence, and I don't think smellie has ever posted pics of his, which I'd love to see.

B.s.a. Co. 1917 sht le 111 (current discussion in progress)http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=52773

Lee Enfield Aluminum stock (old 2013 discussion)http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=45941

Hope that helps... :)

Regards,
Doug
Click to expand...

I will be heading to Smellies place in the next month or so. We have been planning to take some pictures of many rare pieces in his collection for quiet a while, perhaps we can get it done on that visit, or if he is willing I will bring them home and take full photos of the rifles in question.

Steve
 
In the old 2013 discussion on Milsurps.com Twosteam posted a short video of smellie's rifle. His is a NRF receiver while this one is BSA. Both were rebarreled in 1945. My early suggestion that they may have been made from stock duplicating masters is probably incorrect. On further research it seems that the inletting masters may have been 200% in size.
 
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