I just got a Baikal MP221 in 45-70 . I plane on reloading for this gun but cant find any good info on loads for it. Also I have found no answers as to what is the max loads for this action. I have read any were from 28000psi to 45000psi. Any help would be nice. thanks
Baikal MP221 in 45-70
- Thread starter hawkeyeMASH
- Start date
I can't see it not being able to take the same loads as for the modern lever rifles which are higher pressure than the trap door loads (which would be same as for antique lever rifles?). I don't know how strong the action is compared to a Ruger No.1/3 though as that is an exceptionally strong action.
The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists the following:
18,000 CUP for trap door (9383psi based on Denton Bramwell's equation)
28,000 CUP for modern lever rifles (24,542psi)
40,000 CUP for Ruger No.1/3 (42,732psi)
The Hodgdon online database lists this though:
28,000 CUP for trap door rifles
40,000 CUP for modern lever rifles
50,000 CUP for Ruger No.1/3, Browning 1885, and Siamese bolt action (57,891psi)
I have an H&R Handi-Rifle which is a single shot break action so more similar to your Baikal than a lever or Ruger I suppose. It can handle the 28,000 CUP loads from the Lyman book but when I tried some of the 40,000 CUP loads at starting values it was unlatching itself when firing. The 40,000 CUP loads from Hodgdon though are no issue in my H&R and don't unlatch the action. I haven't tried any 50,000 CUP loads from Hodgdon. I'm not sure why the two sources give different CUP values for the same types of firearms. Is Lyman more cautious? Did they use different data collection methods? I don't know.
Personally I would have no issue putting any modern lever-safe loads into a break action rifle but you may want to be cautious around the ones designed for dropping block rifles. I remember reading that dropping block rifles like the Ruger No.1, No.3, Browning 1885, etc. are a stronger design than break action but I don't know by how much.
A 300gr bullet travelling 2400fps (one of Hodgdon's 40,000 CUP lever loads) can take anything in North America including the big bears (with the right bullet choice). I launch 500gr hard cast bullets at 1400fps and they can pass clear through 12"+ poplar trees. If you want to make an elephant gun you're probably better off buying a 458 Winchester or something along those lines. Just my opinion.
*Edit*
Compare some loads.....
For a 405gr bullet with IMR-4198 at "28,000 CUP":
Lyman 36.5-40.5
Hodgdon 30.0-32.0
For a 350gr bullet with IMR-4198 at "40,000 CUP":
Lyman 44.0-49.0
Hodgdon 47.0-50.0
Hmmm... lets try to find similar loads regardless of listed pressure:
Lyman 405gr, IMR-4198, "18,000 CUP"
31.5-35.0
Hodgdon the same but listed as "28,000 CUP"
30.0-32.0
So Hodgdon's "28,000 CUP" load uses less of the same powder for an equal weight bullet as a Lyman "18,000 CUP". So either Lyman's pressures are low or Hodgdon's pressures are high, or both. So I guess both sources "lever gun loads" are of similar pressure?
The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists the following:
18,000 CUP for trap door (9383psi based on Denton Bramwell's equation)
28,000 CUP for modern lever rifles (24,542psi)
40,000 CUP for Ruger No.1/3 (42,732psi)
The Hodgdon online database lists this though:
28,000 CUP for trap door rifles
40,000 CUP for modern lever rifles
50,000 CUP for Ruger No.1/3, Browning 1885, and Siamese bolt action (57,891psi)
I have an H&R Handi-Rifle which is a single shot break action so more similar to your Baikal than a lever or Ruger I suppose. It can handle the 28,000 CUP loads from the Lyman book but when I tried some of the 40,000 CUP loads at starting values it was unlatching itself when firing. The 40,000 CUP loads from Hodgdon though are no issue in my H&R and don't unlatch the action. I haven't tried any 50,000 CUP loads from Hodgdon. I'm not sure why the two sources give different CUP values for the same types of firearms. Is Lyman more cautious? Did they use different data collection methods? I don't know.
Personally I would have no issue putting any modern lever-safe loads into a break action rifle but you may want to be cautious around the ones designed for dropping block rifles. I remember reading that dropping block rifles like the Ruger No.1, No.3, Browning 1885, etc. are a stronger design than break action but I don't know by how much.
A 300gr bullet travelling 2400fps (one of Hodgdon's 40,000 CUP lever loads) can take anything in North America including the big bears (with the right bullet choice). I launch 500gr hard cast bullets at 1400fps and they can pass clear through 12"+ poplar trees. If you want to make an elephant gun you're probably better off buying a 458 Winchester or something along those lines. Just my opinion.
*Edit*
Compare some loads.....
For a 405gr bullet with IMR-4198 at "28,000 CUP":
Lyman 36.5-40.5
Hodgdon 30.0-32.0
For a 350gr bullet with IMR-4198 at "40,000 CUP":
Lyman 44.0-49.0
Hodgdon 47.0-50.0
Hmmm... lets try to find similar loads regardless of listed pressure:
Lyman 405gr, IMR-4198, "18,000 CUP"
31.5-35.0
Hodgdon the same but listed as "28,000 CUP"
30.0-32.0
So Hodgdon's "28,000 CUP" load uses less of the same powder for an equal weight bullet as a Lyman "18,000 CUP". So either Lyman's pressures are low or Hodgdon's pressures are high, or both. So I guess both sources "lever gun loads" are of similar pressure?
While knowing the theoretical maximum might be interesting, shouldn't you be more concerned with finding loads that your gun is regulated for? Having flatter trajectories and loads of energy is great; but only if they shoot to the point of aim, right?
I think you have to use reduced loads.
My dad has the 30-06 version and anything factory but 220gr ammo (largest 30-06 projectile i believe, less powder than other loads) causes the action to jam up because the firing pins crater the primer so badly. The problem is it uses larger shotgun firing pins, and the primers crater into the holes of the oversize pin channels
Bottom line is it can handle higher loads, but the action will not be smooth at all
My dad has the 30-06 version and anything factory but 220gr ammo (largest 30-06 projectile i believe, less powder than other loads) causes the action to jam up because the firing pins crater the primer so badly. The problem is it uses larger shotgun firing pins, and the primers crater into the holes of the oversize pin channels
Bottom line is it can handle higher loads, but the action will not be smooth at all
