Baker Flintlock Rifle
- Thread starter Rob D.
- Start date
Well, if money is no object ... you could order a hand-built one from Peter Dyson & Son in England - though I suspect you won't want to pay quite as much as their £2500 starting price (C$5000) - especially since you could likely find a shootable original for that much! ... 
I think that IMA only has Brunswick-pattern percussion rifles, and I don't see a Baker rifle in the Pedersoli line. I'm not sure anyone is actually producing a rifled reproduction Baker for the market (except perhaps custom gunmakers.)
Although you may already be aware of them, there are at least two Canadian sources for the relatively low-cost smoothbore version of the Baker - for which "rifling options" do exist -
Discriminating General - Baker
This .62 cal. (as opposed to .69 - .70, which I understand was the other "standard" bore size of originals) smoothbore repro is supposedly made by the company which made the repros for the Sharpe's series - and they claim that Bernard Cromwell, the author of the Sharpe novels, bought his rifle from them. Nice looking, judging from the pictures. You will note that if you buy from them, they will put you in touch with a US-based gunmaker who will make, fit and install a rifled barrel (for US$150, plus shipping.) I take it from this that you'd still have the smoothbore barrel as well (which comes with the vent hole not drilled - though that is easily enough remedied, of course.) Their current price is C$679, and they also offer a repro sword bayonet and scabbard (apparently only available if you buy a "rifle") at C$140 .... I have dealt with these people for some stuff in the past (though not firearms) and have no complaints.
The other source:
Loyalist Arms & Repairs
This is also a smoothbore version - at C$723 - and is also bored in the smaller .62 caliber.
As an alternative to seeking out a rifled barrel for one of these smoothbores, I seem to recall reading that the thicker-walled .62 cal barrels lend themselves quite well be being rifled, if you have access to a gunsmith who can do that for you ....
I think that IMA only has Brunswick-pattern percussion rifles, and I don't see a Baker rifle in the Pedersoli line. I'm not sure anyone is actually producing a rifled reproduction Baker for the market (except perhaps custom gunmakers.)
Although you may already be aware of them, there are at least two Canadian sources for the relatively low-cost smoothbore version of the Baker - for which "rifling options" do exist -
Discriminating General - Baker
This .62 cal. (as opposed to .69 - .70, which I understand was the other "standard" bore size of originals) smoothbore repro is supposedly made by the company which made the repros for the Sharpe's series - and they claim that Bernard Cromwell, the author of the Sharpe novels, bought his rifle from them. Nice looking, judging from the pictures. You will note that if you buy from them, they will put you in touch with a US-based gunmaker who will make, fit and install a rifled barrel (for US$150, plus shipping.) I take it from this that you'd still have the smoothbore barrel as well (which comes with the vent hole not drilled - though that is easily enough remedied, of course.) Their current price is C$679, and they also offer a repro sword bayonet and scabbard (apparently only available if you buy a "rifle") at C$140 .... I have dealt with these people for some stuff in the past (though not firearms) and have no complaints.
The other source:
Loyalist Arms & Repairs
This is also a smoothbore version - at C$723 - and is also bored in the smaller .62 caliber.
As an alternative to seeking out a rifled barrel for one of these smoothbores, I seem to recall reading that the thicker-walled .62 cal barrels lend themselves quite well be being rifled, if you have access to a gunsmith who can do that for you ....
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It is my understanding that the smoothbore barrels being discussed are made from seamless tubing in India. Selling these smoothbore repros unvented, in nonfiring condition has some advantages for the seller, with respect to cost and liability. If the smooth bore is sufficiently uniform it could be rifled, although seamless mechanical tubing is not the nicest material to machine. And, the proper sized rifling head would have to be available or made.
That being said, I very much want either a Baker or an India Pattern (3rd pattern) Brown bess.
Probably will go with the Bessy since it's supposed to be a smoothbore anyhow. Time to start saving nickles and dimes.
BTW: Does the seller provide instructions on flash hole size? I know the barrel is dimpled over the flashpan to locate the hole, but what about size? I phoned 2 gunsmiths jsut to see if a "qualified gunsmith" as referred to on their site would know what size hole to use. Neither of them had any idea as all flinters they see are pre-drilled. ???
Probably will go with the Bessy since it's supposed to be a smoothbore anyhow.
Time to start saving nickles and dimes.BTW: Does the seller provide instructions on flash hole size? I know the barrel is dimpled over the flashpan to locate the hole, but what about size? I phoned 2 gunsmiths jsut to see if a "qualified gunsmith" as referred to on their site would know what size hole to use. Neither of them had any idea as all flinters they see are pre-drilled. ???
Nothing magic about flashhole size. 1/16 is about the smallest practical, ignition time will be slower than 5/64 or 3/32. Don't go bigger, unless you enjoy a large eruption just in front of your face. Even then, ALWAYS wear eye protection! Probably best is to install a counterbored flashhole liner. Gets the charge closer to the flash of the priming, yet permits a small diameter hole. Apart from touchhole geometry, the lock really affects ignition time. The 7" locks on most muskets have large heavy moving parts with long striking arcs. Slower lock time, with a perceptable flash-band effect. Before drilling one of these repros, it would be a really good idea to pull the plug and inspect its fit, and the barrel very carefully. A flintlock smoothbore generates surprisingly low pressure, but better to be safe than sorry.
- Location
- West coast of Vancouver Island
Trial Bakers were 69 cal but the troops hated the recoil. The Rifle Shoppe, were your photo is from, has rifled Baker kits, ($1075US) but they are slow to deliver. A fellow I know had trouble with The Discriminating General Baker rifle, he had to remove the breech plug because the flash channel in the plug wasn't complete and yes this is not the exterior touch hole. The flash channel didn't reach the face of the plug. I would put money on the $700 Loyalist model. Blair at Loyalist said that they would make a custom Baker using TRS parts for about $2500, but you would wait about 6 months. A rifled barrel is available from Track of the Wolf, so I guess you could buy the barrel with breech plug and barrel key and make it fit an Indian Baker. The Rifle Shoppe also sells the rifleman's tools and powder horn parts. The Rifle shoppe web site is a pain to navigate, if you need help I have both The Rifle Shoppe and Track of the Wolf catalogues.
SW
SW
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That might be an idea - has anyone mated a TOTW barrel to a DG stock and lock? Seems liek the most economical route.
Are the Indian made repros of acceptable quality? Is the stock wood real walnut, or is it Luan Mahogany?
Are the Indian made repros of acceptable quality? Is the stock wood real walnut, or is it Luan Mahogany?
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
The Indian ones are from Henry Krank in the U.K. Years ago I bought one and had the barrel rifled. But I also had to have the lock worked on as everytime I pulled the trigger, the hammer would come crashing doen on HALF-####. Oy yeah, the stock was ORANGE so that had to be refinished with walnut stain. One thing nice is the fact that the barrel is so thick that blowing it up would be a minor miracle. Found a 20ga. cast shotgun slug was a perfect fit.
- Location
- West coast of Vancouver Island
TDG stocks are a unidentifed brown wood coated with purple stain. My Loyalist Bess is rosewood, not the proper walnut, but very pretty.
SW
SW
Claven2 said:
So in other words, I should wait till Marstar stocks the Pedersolli Brown Bess they've been whispering about. As I hear it, they are on order but the factory was between production runs
That one, at least, is walnut stocked and you know the quality will be a cut above Indian made stuff.
That one, at least, is walnut stocked and you know the quality will be a cut above Indian made stuff.
- Location
- West coast of Vancouver Island
All the Pedersoli Bess's that I have seen were well made. Their stocks look like plain American walnut. For reenactors the Pedersoli would have to be defarbed. It will be interesting to see their price, I have seen anywhere between $1100 to $1600.
SW
SW
Shrapnel said:
FARB = re-enactor slang for "FAR BE IT" as in "Far be it from reality that this ever existed in antiquity".
To Defar
to remove all markings and features from an object which make it readily identifiable as not authentic, or to make historically accurate.In the case of Italian made guns, the ugly Pedersoli logo, the HUGE Italian proof mark stampings, the "Black Powder Only" legalese mumbo jumbo, etc.
Claven2 said:FARB = re-enactor slang for "FAR BE IT" as in "Far be it from reality that this ever existed in antiquity".
To Defar
In the case of Italian made guns, the ugly Pedersoli logo, the HUGE Italian proof mark stampings, the "Black Powder Only" legalese mumbo jumbo, etc.
Which to this day never makes any sense to me when you START with a repro...
Skip said:Which to this day never makes any sense to me when you START with a repro...
Hey, didn't say I do it, but someone asked what it meant
FWIW, my muzzle-loader long rifle is an early Zouave stocked in beech which is a HUGE FARB. After 4 or 5 years of importing beech rifles, the Italian makers all switched to using American Black Walnut within a year or two of each other because re-enactors wanted walnut. My rifle only goes to the range and deer stand so I don;t care, but it would not be an attractive option for a serious re-enactor.
Mine also has all the Italian markings.
That being said, if I were into dressing up like a Napoleonic soldier and firing blanks at other Napolenic era re-enactors, I would probably not care at all how a rifle shot and REALLY would care that the rifle looked authentic. I also probably would deeply appreciate history and not want to shoot alot of blanks through and beat up on and original Brown Bess worth over 3K...
