Bar solder tin content

blacksmithden

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I found a source for bar solder at 50 cents a pound. What I want to know is, what the heck do the numbers mean on the bars ???? It was more like a batch number or something....wish I had written it down. What I want to know is, by the numbers, can I tell the tin content ???? It's probably not pure lead, but it did seem pretty soft. Is there some ANSI standard that will tell me what the numbers mean ??? The string of numbers didn't contain the letters Sn or Pb.
 
Most bar solder is 40-60. That means 40% tin and 60% lead. The worst I have seen is 30-70. You got a steal!!!
Some of the letters you saw may have been the element symbols. Tin is Sn and lead is Pb.
 
Sounds like a good buy if you need the Tin content, however Tin will only help with fillout on the molds, it will add a little to the hardness of you ingots.

50 cents a pound is cheap even if its 30% content, considering pure tin is upwards of 20.00 a pound.
 
I also got about 5 gallons of lead fishing sinkers, and about 70 lbs of medical isotope containers. I haven't bought the bar solder yet. The sinkers seemed to have about the same hardness as wheel weights. My highly scientific test :rolleyes: involved pushing my truck key into them, and then a wheel weight...then the sinker again LOL!!! I really need to pick up one of those Lee lead hardness testers.

Anyway, they had a pile of lead sheet which was very soft......quite a few lead blocks that looked like they might have been counter weights of some kind.......some stuff that looked like a pile of doggy doo......a bunch of solid lead round bars about 2 inches in diameter....and what I would guess would be about 5 tons of wheel weights. They wanted the same price for the wheel weights as they did everything else in the pile. At least I can just dump the sinkers and the isotope containers right into the pot without having to fish out half a million clips and iron weights. Also, I don't have to worry about contaminating the batch with Zinc.

I was thinking that the tin content in the solder sure couldn't hurt if I dumped it all in one pot for one big batch of bullet lead.

If you haven't guessed yet, I was at a local scrap yard. Once again, I asked if they had antimony, and once again I got the "what the hell are you talking about???" look. No real surprise there.

I guess I should go back and pick up the bar solder before they sell it to a Chinese toy factory. :eek:
 
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Here's a cut and past from a message on castboolits.com.

Credit goes to a fellow by the name of sqlbullet for the most scientic test I've seen yet. It looks like quenching your bullets really makes a big difference.




I have rather some experience with isotope lead. I have a source that works at a hospital. I am able to purchase about 1,000 lbs /month. The lead ranges from small vial containers all the way up to the 30# reactor cores. Some vials are painted, and some are not.

For my son's recent science fair project, we undertook to test the effects of various hardening techniques on the lead. Let me summarize our findings.

We cast 180 samples each at 650°, 700° and 750° as indicated by a lyman themometer from a Lee Production 4 10# pot. The samples were 175 gr SWC TL from a Lee six-cavity mold. At each temp half the samples were air-cooled, and half were water dropped. No bullets were retained during the mold 'pre-heat' period of casting.

The ingots that were replaced in the pot were all made from a single smelting session, from the same component lead. The lead ingots averaged 13.33 BHN on a Lee Tester. Lead was added to the pot after each 180 bullets, along with any accumulated sprue's. The ingots were sorted as to ensure average hardness lead was added each time. The number of each ingot and the sequence it was added was recorded for use in more advanced analysis later (if I have it in me).

Once cast, bullets were divided into 18 groups of 10 bullets. These groups were a control of the air-cooled and quenched at each temp (total of 6 groups), 6 groups that would be annealed for 1 hour in a 350° oven, then air-cooled, and 6 groups that would be heat treated for an hour in a 450° oven and then quenched.

Group 1-6
Cast Temp 650°
1,3,4 air cooled to an avg BHN of 10.53.
2,5,6 quenched to an avg BHN of 25.88
3,5 were annealed to an avg BHN of 10.83 and 10.67 respectively
4,6 were heat treated to an avg BHN of 16.44 and 17.38 respectively

Group 7-12
Cast Temp 700°
7,9,10 air cooled to an avg BHN of 11.23
8,11,12 quenched to an avg BHN of 29.50
9,11 were annealed to an avg BHN of 9.72 and 10.13 respectively
10,12 were heat treated to an avg BHN of 20.46 and 21.83 respectively

Group 13-18
Cast Temp: 750°
13,15,16 air cooled to an avg BHN of 11.77
14,17,18 quenched to an avg BHN of 32.41
15,17 were annealed to an avg BHN of 9.86 and 10.37 respectively
16,18 were heat treated to an avg BHN of 24.87 and 25.33 respectively

The average weight of the samples ranged from a low of 172.08 (Groups 1,4) to a high of 173.66 (group 18).

I have retained the samples, and intend to test them again for age-hardening and final diameter and length.

Hope this helps.
 
I have some 5 pound ingots of heavy duty babbit metal. It was at least 20 years ago that I contacted Canada metal, to see what they were.
Talk about hard bullets, how would this be, Ben?
File0002.jpg
 
So quenching makes the bullet hard. Does this reduce leading? I am wondering about the ability to make bulletsfrom just wheel weights - no antimony. I have always assumed that without anitimony the lead and tin don't mix and the result is leading.
 
Lyman used to sell alloy mixtures for bullets. On a tin to lead ratio they were 3-97 for the softest, to 5-95. The one they called their #2 misture was very popular and I think it was 5/95, tin to lead.
 
So quenching makes the bullet hard. Does this reduce leading? I am wondering about the ability to make bulletsfrom just wheel weights - no antimony. I have always assumed that without anitimony the lead and tin don't mix and the result is leading.

Straight wheel weight lead alloy, dropped in a 5 gallon bucket of cold water is all I've ever shot (where cast bullets are concerned). I put gas checks on my rifle bullets, lube them with Lee liquid alox and I've never had a leading problem at all. Just keep the velocites at 2000 feet per second or less. In my 44 mag revolver, and my 45 auto hand guns, I shoot them without any kind of a gas check. I load the 44 to full pop loads and have never had any leading issues.
Straight wheel weights, and lube are all you need for handgun loads/velocities. There's alreay some antimony in wheel weight alloy.
 
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Lyman used to sell alloy mixtures for bullets. On a tin to lead ratio they were 3-97 for the softest, to 5-95. The one they called their #2 misture was very popular and I think it was 5/95, tin to lead.

You can still get most of those mixes from Canada Metal. Click on the "Bullet" tab on their home page.. They show the composition of many lead alloys. Lots of interesting info on their site.

canadametal.com
 
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I checked Canada Metal's prices about 6 months ago, and if I recall correctly, they wanted something like $2.69 / lb for Lyman #2. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, I do remember that I almost gaged at the price.

I went back to my local yocal scrap dealer today and picked up 137 lbs of that bar solder. It's 37% lead and 63% tin. I should have looked at more of the bars. The 3rd one I picked up today had the numbers on it.

If nothing else, my bullets will cast nice and be very shinny :D I figure a couple of these sticks into a propane sized tank of melt of wheel weights and isotope containers should give me a fairly decent tin content. I also bought a hardness tester today. I'll test a few things and see what the hardness is.

One thing I've discovered as well.......just to add more confusion into the casting/bullet metal pot. Not all wheel weights are created equal. I sorted out about 60 lb of them to make sure there wasn't any zinc.....yea, I know, keep the temp down and the zinc will float. ......this way, I don't have to worry about it. Anyway, I was putting each weight into the jaws of my vise and giving them a little squeeze. Lead feels a world softer than zinc, and obviously, iron weights. Some of the lead ones were definately softer than others. From what I could tell, there were about 7 different manufacturers that made the batch I got.
 
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In all the buckets of wheel weights that I have melted, all the zinc weights float up on top. As far as consistency goes, when batch has melted I test cast with my 45 colt mold and when I get it at 252 grains by adding linotype then I am good to go.
 
I've heard that too hard a bullet can be a problem but I'm not sure why exactly. Too soft has always been my concern though black powder cartridge bullets are a bit of a balancing act. (Gotta get a tester too)

The water dropping seems to do it for the pistol bullets I've been using but the hardness of tempered bullets will gradually decrease over time. Not sure if they revert all the way back to untempered hardness but I do know that they will loose some temper over a matter of months.
 
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