Bargain .338 Edge build?

Dogleg

Dogleg

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Let me start by saying my experience with the .338 Edge and similar is limited to shooting my buddy's rifle. Still, there is a undeniable appeal to snuggling behind a 15 pound borrowed rifle dialing in elevation and windage then hitting a rock at 875 yards.:D
His opinion is that by starting with a M700 and adding everything to it, he had managed to spend as much money as a rifle built on a custom action. While that is no doubt true, I am wondering if simply blueprinting my 700PSS in .300 Win Mag,then screwing on a heavy .338 barrel and brake would still be worth doing? I would shoot it as a single-shot so feeding isn't an issue.
Is jumping partway in a possibility, or is "all or nothing" the only way to fly?
What's the consensus?
 
20 cant scope rail $100, 30mm tactical rings $125, LR scope of choice $1600, Quality stock $350, Action and chambered barrel $1400.....to see a deer/ Elk/ Moose or any other critter drop in it's tracks at 800 yards...PRICELESS!
 
Why not just use the Rem you have now?

A 300WM with 208gr Amax or 210gr Bergers will do everything you could possibly want both for LR plinking and moderate range hunting. The Amax is 1/2 the cost of the heavy 338's.

I would put a muzzle brake/recoil pd on though as that will make the shooting experience more comfortable. Bed the action in the stock properly, reduce the trigger pull and have at it.

I am guessing that your PSS stock is by HS. A very good product with lousy bedding - easily solved though. Not heavy enough, just add some lead.

Little reason why your rifle can't shoot sub MOA at LR.

A bigger bore does not mean it is any more accurate or better at LR. I shoot a 223 regularly to 1000m and will be working with 6, 6.5 and 7mm cartridges to go beyond a mile.

Save your money on a rifle and put it towards better optics. The new Bushnell 30mm Elite 4200 6x24 - 50mm scope with Burris rings w/inserts can take your Rem from 100yds to 1500yds no problem.

Far enough????

Jerry

PS the Edge is a 338-300RUM improved wildcat. Should push a 250gr Scenar to over 3000fps and a 300gr MK to 3000fps in a 28" pipe. More or less the same as an improved 338 Lapua.
 
Mystic Player,
I am shooting the .300 right now, playing with loads and such. 400 rounds through it the first week, then hunting got in the road. My local, just around the corner range only goes to 200 yards. Practically every load I've tried will go MOA at 200, but so far nothing is any better. Not that I consider this LR. I've tried 200, 190 and 175 SMK and 4 powders. (RL22 and 25, H1000 and 7828) I'll continue to play and have some Berger 210 and 190 to loaded try as well. The current set-up will serve for now, there is plenty I can learn with the present rig. What I'm trying to do is plot my next move. Considering my hunting and varmint rifles shoot better, a rebarrel will likely be in the works. Staying with the .300 is a definite option.
The stock is a HS Precision with bedding block, skim bedded. The trigger is as light as I could get it with a spring change/adjust. Good enough anyway. The current scope is a Mark 4 6.5-20 in medium Leupold rings. The mount will change, but I wanted to shoot it now. There are 29 minutes of elevation left at the 200 yard zero, not ideal but at least I'm shooting it instead of waiting.
The recoil of the .300 doesn't bother me, but is more than my friends .338 with the Holland brake. Granted, his rifle is also considerably heavier. I can see bullet impacts with his rifle, and not my own. A recoil pad is a given, because I find Remington stocks too short.
I've got a 1-8" 22 Middlestead on a XR100 to play with as well, and because of this don't really want to drop below the .300 level. I'll send its 6.5-20 LR in for turrets this winter, but otherwise its ready to stretch out.

1500 yards would be more than enough. The same friend is digging through his pile of stuff for a set of Burris insert rings. We'll see if we can make them work for height. This fits in with the theme of bargain long range.
 
Dogleg,

I am waiting on stocks for my new 223, 300 win, and 338 Edge LR rifles.


I have never owned a fast twist 223 before and am a little anxious about this one. Judging by Mystic's experience it is going to be a lot of fun out to around the 1000yd mark.


I have quite a bit of experience with the 300 Win....And can't recommend it enough...I also have a 300 Ultra. And though I like it I would recommend a 33 instead.

Loaded with the 200 Accubond the 300 Win. plain rocks as a LR hunter. With my factory Sendero (with a Jewel trigger and a brake) I was able to hold 3/4 MOA out to 600 yards.
2 inch groups at 200 yards is a sad state of a affair for the 300 Win....It is capable of much more than this. Something is wrong and I suspect the stock/factory barrel is giving you greif....A light trigger pull really helps here too.
I had some difficulty with the HS stock bedding block and also the stock's bag riding abilities. Jerry mentioned adding weight to the butt...This will help, though unless you mainly shoot off a bipod I might consider some of the other stocks out there.

The 300 Win will in theory reach a bit past 1500 yards with the 210 Berger. I suspect the 208 Amax and the longer SMK's will get there as well.



As Far as the 338 Edge goes I have no long range experience.Those that shoot it and shoot game with it rave about it. I do have decades of experience with 338 hunting rifles. To say say they work well would be an understatement! They 33's are flat devastating on game. In a long range hunting application this could be the ideal bore size....

The Edge (and its kin) do have an advantage in wind deflection, downrange energy, and range over everything else (other than a 50), but if you can't hit it with a 30 mag you probably won't hit it with an edge either......

Good luck !
 
Dogleg, let's break down your post. First off, congrats on MOA at 200yds. Might surprise you at how good that really is. If your rifle continues to be consistent at MOA, at 1500yds, you can hit INSIDE a large pizza. At 1000yds, inside to garden variety dinner plate or milk jug everytime!

You are not building a BR rifle but something that can withstand the rigors of field use, ie hunting, AND still put them where they belong - boiler room.

Let's quickly cover what should be just fine. The scope will do you just fine. In fact, with 29min of up, you can go to 1100yds right now. Put them into Burris rings w/inserts and you can consider the mile a possibility.

If you are using turn in rings/baes, get rid of them. There is simply too much slop or places to go loose. Weaver bases and rings PERIOD. Blue loctite on the hardware. Epoxy under the bases.

I like a trigger at 1lb or less for this type of shooting. High trigger pull weights require a firmer grip on the rifle which can cause you to pull during recoil. Not ideal.

To improve, try other bullets. All barrels are picky and you have already proven that Sierras shoot MOA. Try Hornady Amax, Bergers VLDs, and Nosler Accubonds. All excellent bullets that are BR accurate. Variations in bullet diameter can have a profound effect on accuracy.

Switch to the Lee collet sizing die or get a runout guage and check your ammo. Ammo with bullet runout over 4 thou needs to be addressed. Use Fed 215M primers

What type of rests are you using? A solid stable and wide proper pedestal front rest with conforming bag front and rear? Shooting off a concrete or other solid bench? Using wind flags? Resetting your rifle to exactly the same point for every shot? Controlling the trigger pull and follow through?

All the other BR shooting techniques that can lead to teeny tiny groups?

It only takes a very slight nudge to send that bullet 1/2" off course at 200yds. Shooting form with a hard kicking rifle is very difficult to keep consistent. Put on a muzzle brake, limbsaver recoil pad, add as much weight as you can - be able to spot your own shots. That will likely cut your group size by 1/3.

Keep an eye on vertical stringing. That'll kill you at long range. Why match primers and quality powder are critical. Give Retumbo a try too.

Recheck your bedding. That recoil lug must be supported on ALL sides including the front. The action should not be easy to take out of the stock. You have alot of recoil shaking things apart. Doesn't take much to cause your action to shift and with it, barrel harmonics.

With more rifle tuning, and load tweaks, you should have a rifle that shoots at or near 3/4min. Maybe even close to 1/2min. That is within spitting distance of a BR barrel spun on that action.

Anytime you have a hunting rig shooting sub MOA, its a keeper. Read my articles that are linked in my sig for more info on setting up your rifle and loading.

Jerry
 
X-fan,
I agree that 2 inch groups at 200 isn't exactly awe-inspiring, when I expect 1/2 of that from my varminters. I suspect the barrel myself, and really a good barrel only costs the same as a couple kegs of powder. I'll at least try the Bergers before I yank the pipe. I can get a Varmint contour Lilja for about $325. Longer barrels would have a surcharge.
The differences between the Sendero and Police are largely cosmetic. I'd be more optimistic if mine shot more like yours. I intend to use the rifle as a bipod gun and if possible I'd like to keep the stock, swollen grip and all. If I'm going to change both the stock and barrel I might as well start over with an action. The trigger is no Jewel, but is actually pretty good.I've got a Jewel on my STW and don't feel I'm missing much in this csae.
Slightly off topic, but I sometimes wonder about accuracy expectations. We were dialing 6.5 minutes of left windage at 875 yards. Since thats 57 inches, an inch of group size one way or the other seems less important, taken in context. Even MOA would put the bullet within 4 1/2 inches of the aiming point. That's the same error as misjudging the windage adjustment by 2clicks.
 
Mysticplayer,
I was probably typing when I should have been waiting.:D Here's a little more detail about what I'm doing.
Currently I'm using turn-in rings but will change them out. I always Blue Locite all bases, this is no exception. I use a Caldwell front rest and high bunny-ear leather rear bag on a concrete bench. Most people consider my bag technique as decent, but I am no competitive bench shooter. I'm watching the position of the fore-end. The range is high bermed from end to end and the firing position is covered. Wind effect is minimized, but I did have a couple calm days as well. Didn't help.
I forgot to mention Retumbo as another powder I tried. Pressures were pegged pretty much from starting loads and it was the worst of the bunch. They got pulled down. I use 215M primers and both Nosler and Winchester brass. There is no difference between the two brass types at this close distance, but doubtless that will change farther out. I'm using Redding and RCBS standard dies and run-out on most rounds is .002", nothing is over .003" on my RCBS Casemaster. The Nosler cases are already weight sorted.
I can redo the bedding, the lug is not bedded tight on 4 sides. There is 1 layer of tape clearance on the front side.Most groups are 5 shots, many are 6. I like to have an extra around for screw-ups, and might as well shoot it if there isn't. Cold barrel shots are always right in the center, clean or dirty. Groups are usually round. Bullets have been loaded at, into and off the rifling, as well as the factory length of the Federal Gold metal Match factory load with 190SMK. None of that seemed to make any difference I could detect. One pattern that I noticed is that no matter what published load data I used I had to quit 2 grains under the listed max. I thought that curious.
I'll try the 210 Bergers next, they are loaded with H1000 already. I haven't given up yet.
 
anyone have a handle on federal 215M's ? everywhere in town (wholesale and powderkeg) are out of stock and dont have any expectation on getting any federal primers in the near future.
 
Availability is spotty, but WSS seems to get them rather regularly even if they don't know when they're coming. I got 10,000 in Saskatoon awhile ago which should hold me if I use the easily obtainable Regular Federal, Winchesters and CCI for my plinking loads.
 
Dogleg, looks like you have many of the bases covered. With the lower powder amounts that indicates a rough and/or tight bore. Not a big deal. That is why changing bullet brands can have a significant effect. All manf have variations in their bullet diameter and a thou or two matters.

Even if you don't have any group improvements, the consistency and repeatability you now enjoy from the cold bore is EVERYTHING in a LR hunting rig. First shot hits are all that matter in the field.

Once you start shooting LR at objects not paper targets, your need for two bullets touching dissappears. What you will quickly find is that consistent MOA is very good field accuracy.

Many bughole short range loads/rifles fall apart when distances stretch beyond 500yds.

Stick with the highest BC bullets if you intend on LR shooting so the 210gr Berger and 208gr Amax are your next best options. Also try and find some Lapua 185gr Scenars. They tend to be on the narrower side for some of their cals.

Jerry
 
Mystic Player,
I had to run back to work for awhile, so dropped the Remington off at the gunsmith today to touch up the bedding. I asked him to redo the crown while he's at it even though we can't see anything wrong with it. Hopefully I'll get some time over Christmas to wring it out some more with the Bergers and at least another quick try with the Sierras to see if there were any improvements from the base-line.
I may be unrealistic in applying the same accuracy standard to a .300 as midrange varmint calibers, but habits die hard. It's just that I have 4 other heavy barrels that shoot circles around this one and believe that accuracy can be improved. 3 of those are Remingtons. Whether that is necessary is certainly up for debate, but applying necessity to gun issues is a slippery slope that's best avoided.:D
 
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Dogleg,

My Sendero took around 250 rounds to break in. Yours may take some time as well....Just a thought.
 
X-fan said:
Dogleg,

My Sendero took around 250 rounds to break in. Yours may take some time as well....Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but I'm at double that amount already. I'll continue to play with it, shoot the hell out, comfortable that I'm not abusing anything special. If I get it shooting better, fine. If not, well they make new barrels everyday.
 
my 300wn loved the 178 Amax going refast over some R22 powder and GMM match mag primers
 
Jamie said:
my 300wn loved the 178 Amax going refast over some R22 powder and GMM match mag primers
Click to expand...


X2!

Load a 180 Nosler partition over 74-76 grains of RL-22 and fire it out of a hunting rifle and unless there is something wrong I have come to expect sub one inch (100 yard) groups.....?

Dogleg,
At 500 rounds your barrel is as accurate as it is ever going to be. That your rifle can hold 1 MOA consistently leads me to believe something mechanical is slightly askew. It should just be a matter of eliminating variables...

Here is a short list of the gremlins that have bit me...

-What do you use to clean the barrel of your 300?
-Are your rings Dual Dovetail or are they dovetail front with the dual windage screws on the back?
-Have you ever pulled the Leupold and tried another scope?
-Have you ever dry fired the rifle off of your sandbags while watching for reticle or gun movement?
-Have you checked your overall case trim length? (Must admit to a good laugh when Mysticplayer made the same mistake!:D)

My apologies if I repeat another's suggestion.

Good luck!!
 
Xfan,
75 grains of RL22 and the 180 Nosler Partition is my load in my Tikka T3 Hunter. It will outshoot the 700 Police. So will practically everything else I own. My belief is that this is about as well as this particular barrel is ever going to shoot.Rebarrelling and blueprinting wouldn't break my heart, the question becomes caliber. Just shooting the thing the way it is, is also an option for the short term. As Mysticplayer points out MOA can hardly be considered to be broken.If this level of accuracy would carry out to longer distances it would be OK for rocks, deer and paper, but would suck for coyotes.
I have no reason to suspect the Mark 4. It was new going into the project, tracks and shoots a 5 minute box with no issues. There are no flyers, parallax dials out perfectly and accuracy isn't getting any worse. I do have other 6.5-20 30 mm scopes that I could try if I pulled them off rifles and a brand new 3.5-10 VX111 sitting in the box that could serve as a quick check. I doubt that is it, but it's worth a try.
 
Dogleg,

It sounds as if you have crossed off most of the suspects.

MOA accuracy is all that is required in most LR rifles, but as you say when you are used to shooting .3's.....Heck my 416 shoots just over MOA at 200!

My own Sendero is in the process of a new barrel, blueprint, stock etc. It should be complete by the end of January....Will let you know how it shoots if you want...
 
X-fan,
I've got a CZ .416 that shoots like that as well. It may be pointless but was sure gratifying when I shot a 3/4" 3 shot group off a Land Cruiser hood when checking my sights in Zimbabwe. Picking up a .375 and doing it again didn't hurt the impression I was trying make.;)
I'm looking forward to hearing how your Sendero works out.
 
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