A topic like this should probably be a sticky......I have a 10FP on the way and was wondering how it should be cleaned and shot, shot and cleaned. Normally I just clean with a patch worm and shoot 10 rounds on a new barrel and clean it and then shoot untill it loses it's accuracy, then clean it again. Mind you this is with rimfire. Do you need to use a brush on centre fire? If so, I assume a bore guide and a one piece fiber glass rod is a necessity? What type of bore cleaner is recommended? I have some Shooter's Choice and G-96 that I use for cleaning and RemOil for lube.
Barrel break in and cleaning
- Thread starter KDX
- Start date
Some feel it is a waste of time and money. Others feel it isn't. Some think barrel makers recommend it so you will wear your barrel out quicker... that does not make any sense because you only fire about 20 rounds breaking a barrel in.
Custom quality hand lapped barrels require very little breaking in, if any...
Factory barrels sometimes require a lot....
Here is one method, others can be found at the websites of various barrel makers...
Breaking In A Barrel - Read fully before starting the procedure
When cleaning, always use a good bore guide and a good rod.
Start with a clean, lightly lubed barrel, fire one shot, then run a loose patch through with Sweets 7.62 or any other solvent that will “eat” jacket fouling. Saturate the bore and let it sit a few minutes. Sweets indicates jacket fouling with a blue colour.
Run patches through to dry the bore and then wet patch it again and saturate the bore. After a few minutes dry patch it again. Repeat until the jacket fouling is removed (no blue patches).
After cleaning with Sweets, swab the bore with several patches using rubbing alcohol, this will dissolve any remaining ammonia. Dry and then brush with Hoppes #9 and dry patch the bore and then leave it slightly lubed with a wet patch of Hoppes #9 before firing.
Then fire one more shot, and repeat the above procedure. Do this for a total of 10 shots, and then proceed to fire 2 shots and then clean as above, for 10 more shots. (Total of 20). The barrel is now broken in. It should be cleaned after every 20 or 30 shots there after, if possible.
You will find when the bore is broken in properly, the cleaning procedure is very quick, because there is very little jacket fouling in the bore.
I prefer Sweets 7.62, because it shows “blue” if there is any jacket fouling. I never use a copper or bronze brush with Sweets, because it will eat them, and give a false blue indication of fouling. I never let any other chemicals mix with Sweets. That is why there is a lot of dry patching and swabbing with rubbing alcohol and dry patching between switching chemicals.
Custom quality hand lapped barrels require very little breaking in, if any...
Factory barrels sometimes require a lot....
Here is one method, others can be found at the websites of various barrel makers...
Breaking In A Barrel - Read fully before starting the procedure
When cleaning, always use a good bore guide and a good rod.
Start with a clean, lightly lubed barrel, fire one shot, then run a loose patch through with Sweets 7.62 or any other solvent that will “eat” jacket fouling. Saturate the bore and let it sit a few minutes. Sweets indicates jacket fouling with a blue colour.
Run patches through to dry the bore and then wet patch it again and saturate the bore. After a few minutes dry patch it again. Repeat until the jacket fouling is removed (no blue patches).
After cleaning with Sweets, swab the bore with several patches using rubbing alcohol, this will dissolve any remaining ammonia. Dry and then brush with Hoppes #9 and dry patch the bore and then leave it slightly lubed with a wet patch of Hoppes #9 before firing.
Then fire one more shot, and repeat the above procedure. Do this for a total of 10 shots, and then proceed to fire 2 shots and then clean as above, for 10 more shots. (Total of 20). The barrel is now broken in. It should be cleaned after every 20 or 30 shots there after, if possible.
You will find when the bore is broken in properly, the cleaning procedure is very quick, because there is very little jacket fouling in the bore.
I prefer Sweets 7.62, because it shows “blue” if there is any jacket fouling. I never use a copper or bronze brush with Sweets, because it will eat them, and give a false blue indication of fouling. I never let any other chemicals mix with Sweets. That is why there is a lot of dry patching and swabbing with rubbing alcohol and dry patching between switching chemicals.
beretta boy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orillia, Ontario
Same sort of procedure advocated by Barnes in their Reloading Manual using their Copper Solvent " CR10 " ... this ammonia-based stuff works for me, and besides, what can a break-in procedure harm ?
Moreover, if you never let the barrel get over-heated and don't let it foul up with copper, you should be able to get the best out of it, shouldn't you ???
Moreover, if you never let the barrel get over-heated and don't let it foul up with copper, you should be able to get the best out of it, shouldn't you ???
Glock4ever
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
I never understood barrel break in theory. For the life of me it doesn't make any sense that a brush and a few chemicals is going to "smooth" out your bore or your throat. My understanding is that factory barrels will have slight machining marks throughout the bore and that firing a round will fill "smooth" out the bore by filling in the marks with copper. So why you want to remove it? It is similiar to a .22LR (for me at least) - I have found that most .22LR will group poorly after a cleaning and progressively get better once the fouling returns to the barrel - probably the reason why so many ppl fire a fouling shot after cleaning. Besides that when a rifle is produced in a factory it is usually test fired (some companies fire groups even to test for accuracy) - wouldn't this "ruin" the break in procedure? I mean what if you bought a test fired rifle that was sitting on the shelf for over 5 years with all that copper and powder residue sitting in the barrel - would that ruin the barrel? What I am getting at is that I think the quality of the barrel will dictate how well it shoots and the caliber and pressure of the ammunition will determine how long it lasts. Running a soft brush and some chemicals through the bore isn't going to make it last longer or shoot better (unless we are talking about a dirty bore) 
Personally I think break in is a psychological thing and if you think it helps well by all means do it.
Personally I think break in is a psychological thing and if you think it helps well by all means do it.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
The last New Savage that I shot was in 270. Rds 4, 5 and 6 went into a 1/4" at 100yds. The first three sighted in my scope.
I cleaned the rifle after shooting over 20rds in load work up. That's how I feel about barrel break in.
If I find a barrel looses accuracy 'quickly' and there is quite a bit of copper or powder fouling, I will give it a polish with JB. This is a very mild abrasive and will smooth out the bore. This really helps with keeping rough throats in check.
The new JB bore brite is essentially jewellers rouge. Much more aggressive then reg JB but still like 1200grit. I will use this on really stubborn barrels. Works like a charm.
I have never understood why so many shooters become so obsessed if there is copper fouling in the bore. All I care about is how the barrel shoots.
If that means squeaky clean, I clean. More often then not, it means leaving it looking like a copper pipe. I have yet to meet a factory Savage barrel that shot its best when clean.
Enjoy your new Savage.
Jerry
I cleaned the rifle after shooting over 20rds in load work up. That's how I feel about barrel break in.
If I find a barrel looses accuracy 'quickly' and there is quite a bit of copper or powder fouling, I will give it a polish with JB. This is a very mild abrasive and will smooth out the bore. This really helps with keeping rough throats in check.
The new JB bore brite is essentially jewellers rouge. Much more aggressive then reg JB but still like 1200grit. I will use this on really stubborn barrels. Works like a charm.
I have never understood why so many shooters become so obsessed if there is copper fouling in the bore. All I care about is how the barrel shoots.
If that means squeaky clean, I clean. More often then not, it means leaving it looking like a copper pipe. I have yet to meet a factory Savage barrel that shot its best when clean.
Enjoy your new Savage.
Jerry
Glock4ever said:
I think the theory about thoroughly cleaning between shots for the first few is so you don't just iron copper on top of copper... the barrel is sort of burnished smoother without the copper building up, so later on you can fire more shots without cleaning with less copper buildup. A lot of copper buildup is not good for accuracy and a smooth barrel that is "broken" in does not require a lot of foulers to shoot well.
Glock4ever
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
But that is what I don't understand. If you are removing the copper - I don't see how this is removing the machining marks in the barrel. So the copper is going to fill those gaps again right? This is why I can understand firelapping or D. Tubbs' "Final Finish" products - actually removing material from the bore with an abrasive projectile to "polish" the bore but simply cleaning with ammonia, oil and patches? Doesn't seem like it would accomplish anything. I personally think it could actually be more harmful to clean a barrel too much - especially if the shooter is using poor cleaning eqpt. Just my 2 cents...
I purchased a barrel from Ted Gaillard last year and I asked him what he recommended for a break in procedure. His reply was simply "just shoot it". His explanation on why a new barrel fouls more makes sense to me as I am a Tool and Die Maker.
When the barrel is chambered the reamer will raise a burr on the edge of the bore. You cannot go in there with a tool to remove it because it is not smooth due to the lands and grooves. You wouldn't want to go in there blind anyway. It is only after several firings that the burr is removed and less of the bullet's jacket is left in the barrel. Stainless is bad for this due to the high chrome content. It makes stainless "gummy" and difficult to cut.
Jake
When the barrel is chambered the reamer will raise a burr on the edge of the bore. You cannot go in there with a tool to remove it because it is not smooth due to the lands and grooves. You wouldn't want to go in there blind anyway. It is only after several firings that the burr is removed and less of the bullet's jacket is left in the barrel. Stainless is bad for this due to the high chrome content. It makes stainless "gummy" and difficult to cut.
Jake
My take on it is this
If the big guns in the US are doing so will I. They simply have the resources and people at there disposal to do all sorts of scenarios to see what the effects are if any. I look at it this way, those guys have been there done that. One either chooses to believe or not believe.
In regards to just shooting it I see no one has thought of this scenario. Factory barreled rifles are far more rough inside than a match barrel which has been lapped. You just sit there and fire round after round without cleaning going on the assumption that the copper will fill the tooling marks and smooth out the bore. Have you ever thought of the burned powder residue that is also getting forced into these tooling marks? I would rather shoot a shot, clean to get rid of the powder residue and then fire again following the same procedure for at least 5 rounds building the copper layer that way.
The idea of there being a bure left in the throat area after chambering I can believe but make no bones about it, a factory barrel will definately collect way more copper than any matched barrel for its entire length.
My Gaillard barrel has no copper fouling at all. Thanks in part to Ted Gaillard, the master barrelsmith that he is.
If the big guns in the US are doing so will I. They simply have the resources and people at there disposal to do all sorts of scenarios to see what the effects are if any. I look at it this way, those guys have been there done that. One either chooses to believe or not believe.
In regards to just shooting it I see no one has thought of this scenario. Factory barreled rifles are far more rough inside than a match barrel which has been lapped. You just sit there and fire round after round without cleaning going on the assumption that the copper will fill the tooling marks and smooth out the bore. Have you ever thought of the burned powder residue that is also getting forced into these tooling marks? I would rather shoot a shot, clean to get rid of the powder residue and then fire again following the same procedure for at least 5 rounds building the copper layer that way.
The idea of there being a bure left in the throat area after chambering I can believe but make no bones about it, a factory barrel will definately collect way more copper than any matched barrel for its entire length.
My Gaillard barrel has no copper fouling at all. Thanks in part to Ted Gaillard, the master barrelsmith that he is.
jake2 said:
You are right... because custom quality hand lapped barrels are so smooth, the only part that really "breaks in" is that throat area that has been cut by the chambering reamer after lapping.
A different story with factory barrels.
Tony Gauthier
CGN Regular
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
I always use JB on a newly chambered bbl. this is match grade bbls. I am talking about. Then fire one shot and clean until the fouling stops. I have seen some match bbls. that never did show any fouling after even the first shot. These bbls were some of the most accurate I have ever seen. I had one bbl. that never did clean up and it was one of the most inaccurate bbls. Factory bbls tend to shoot best with some copper fouling. I remember a young fellow bringing back a Ruger .338 that he said was shooting 5 inch groups. I took it to the range to check it out and upon checking the bbl. before firing could find no copper wash at all. I fired the first group and got a 10 inch 3 shot group. The second group was half that size, the third group half again. The fifth group was a 3 shot clover leaf with all touching. When I handed him the rifle back the first thing he did was look down the bbl. and then at me with a glare. Turns out he was cleaning that gun every three shots until she was bare metal. He was obsessed with having no copper showing because he had read an article on barrel cleaning, and it said in black and white that copper would make his gun inaccurate. Once he understood that he should clean only after accuracy dropped off or before long term storage he had no complaints.I personally think that factory bbls. only need a powder solvent, and unless shooting rounds in succesion [such ass varmint shooting] with the bbl warming up seldom need to have copper removed.
IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT. IF IT IS SHOOTING POORLY THEN PLAY WITH IT TILL IT SHOOTS.
IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT. IF IT IS SHOOTING POORLY THEN PLAY WITH IT TILL IT SHOOTS.
BIGREDD said:
Still have to cut the chamber, which raises the possibility of burrs and rough leades. - dan
