Barrel break in

Cummins4x4

Cummins4x4

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Going to be shooting 2 new rifles as soon as the scopes and mounts arrive. Never had brand new ones before and I am getting conflicting advice as to how to break in a new barrel. One extreme is clean it throughly after every shot for the first 20 rounds and then every 10 rounds for the first 100, theory being that the new barrel is a bit rough and copper will embed itself in the scratches, then will be impossible to remove completley unless it is cleaned like this and the rifle will always have a fouling problem.
At the other end of the spectrum is "brush out the shipping grease and blast away till it starts to get good and fouled, then give it a good scrubbing"

I am thinking somewhere in between is probably the way to go but thought I would throw this out there for discussion. The rifles are a Rem 700LTR in .223 and a ruger 77/17 Varmint SS in 17 hmr. Any feed back greatly appreciated.
 
My opinion...Just shoot them and clean them well when you've finished. Don't waste ammo and barrel life on something of no proven benefit. Others will disagree and I respect their position (more so with factory barrels) , but I am firmly in the "just shoot it" column.
 
I am still waiting on a good, logical, explanation on "why break it in" from the break it in camp.
 
I agree 100% after playing the game myself with the above mentioned, Shot cleaned shot cleaned. ect................x 30 plus... Used to be one of the biggest believer's in this process, and thought a barrel was junk if i did not do it. Would never buy a second hand gun because of it LOL! I was wrong.

Now i just shoot them kinda of! , I clean a new barrel before I fire it, put 1 down the and 2 more times I do this, takes 10 mins. Than I just shoot them.

Used to spend Hours doing it, and it really has shown no benifit on the accuracy front.

and i will agree some will argue , and you are 100% entitled to you what you believe!
 
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There is no concensus about this. Have never heard of any definitive evidence. If there were, the research would have to be based on a comparative study of a large number of barrels.
A variation on the breakin theory is that it is more useful when factory barrels, rather than premium custom barrels are involved, thought being that a factory barrel is not likely to have the hand lapped final finish of a custom barrel.
I don't know. Do what makes you most comfortable. I do believe that if a shooter has confidence in his equipment, he will get better results.
 
Obtunded said:
My opinion...Just shoot them and clean them well when you've finished. Don't waste ammo and barrel life on something of no proven benefit. Others will disagree and I respect their position (more so with factory barrels) , but I am firmly in the "just shoot it" column.
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X2 I have bought several new rifles and also have a custom made 220 Swift with heavy contour barrel. All have settled down to MOA or less, the Swift gives me 1/2 MOA, after about 200 or 300 rounds down the pipes. I have done nothing to break them in other then shoot the damn things. I will say this though, whether I shoot 1 round or 500 rounds my guns are well cleaned and oiled before going back on the rack. My bores are all mirror bright. I live in a damp environment and nothing rusts faster than a dry bore with powder residue in it.
 
I doubt if there is much benefit to a barrel break in regiment with a factory barrel, but a high quality custom barrel is another kettle of fish. I followed my own 50 round break in procedure with my Krieger barrel, and the result is that copper fouling is very minimal in this barrel.

Shoot 1 and clean for 5 rounds,
Shoot 3 shots clean for 5 groups
Shoot 5 shots clean for 5 groups
Shoot 1 and clean to treat barrel with Microlon for 5 rounds.
 
My turn to be the grouch.......................

it gets discussed over and over like a dead horse.

Bottom line DO WHAT YOU THINK YOU SHOULD. In the long run you will have no one to blame but yourself.

I personally believe in break in. Factory barrels I say need more than aftermarket match grade barrels. Why? They barrels are mass produced. Pumped out of the factories hand over fist. Just get it made and out the door. No lapping is done. Rifling is there but I say crude and rough. Clean and fire your first shot. What happens is the bullet going down the barrel knocks down the rough spots and deposits copper and lead. If you shoot another bullet I say you just keep on building copper and lead over top what you just layed down. I would clean the bore first and then do it so when the second bullet goes down it is knocking down the edges of the barrel steel. How long to do this? In a factory gun I think it would never stop but I would go five to ten rounds and then just shoot the damn thing.

I see the accuracy gains in my own factory chambered Sako M995 in 30-06 that it stays accurate as long as there is copper in the bore. If I take it right out it wiull not shoot as well until I have about 3-5 rounds down the pipe. I do not clean all of the copper out of the bore anymore on that gun.

ON the other hand my Gaillard Match barrels do not show hardly any copper buildup at all if any. To get it this way it DOES take some break in. Shoot and clean for at least the first 5 using 3 wet patches with Butch's Bore shine, brush 5 x's in and out, 3 more wet patches, then dry. It then shoots perfect. The copper buildup and residue is gone.

We all have our own opinions but I have seen the proof myself. My breakin and cleaning will remain unchanged.
 
I bought a Savage 111, and all I did was run a dry patch through it, it came out clean, so I went out and shot 40 rounds through it the next day. After I came home, I cleaned it out, and it took no effort at all to get it sparkly clean inside once again. I don't see the point of wasting the ammo for break-in either. Granted, just the one centerfire is hardly scientific evidence, but on the other hand, it is also my first and only, and has proven it needs no special break-in (for fouling anyway, we'll see about accuracy later ;) ).
 
tiriaq said:
A variation on the breakin theory is that it is more useful when factory barrels, rather than premium custom barrels are involved, thought being that a factory barrel is not likely to have the hand lapped final finish of a custom barrel.
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Not all Custom barrels are hand lapped either.
 
You talk to 5 different guys and you will get 8 different opininons from guys who think they know it all. Me personally I do it and have seen the difference in cleaning (not accuracy) between barrels that were broken in and not. For those that chose not to, thats fine as well. Whatever your comfortable with.
 
Obtunded said:
That's brilliant. I never thought of it that way, but it's true, aint it?
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I wonder if you can calculate that out at on an average barrel at 24 " travelling at an average of 3000 fps lol! would be in the barrel for .0006666 of a sec i believe x 4000 shots = 2.6 seconds of barrel life. Unless i screwed it up lol!!
 
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JasonYuke, I didn't check your math, but you got the point. If your barrel is a copper collector it will remain so throughout it's lifespan. With a hand lapped barrel, the surface is 10x smoother than a factory barrel, thus having a tendency of collecting less copper. If it's a factory pipe, don't bother with a break in, you'd be wasting your time and ammo. The main thing of any barrel is to keep it clean. Just give it a swipe with a boresnake before you put it away to get rid of any residue. When your POI shifts suddenly, it's probably time to give a good clean to your barrel. Happy shooting!

-Jason
 
Boomer said:
I doubt if there is much benefit to a barrel break in regiment with a factory barrel, but a high quality custom barrel is another kettle of fish. I followed my own 50 round break in procedure with my Krieger barrel, and the result is that copper fouling is very minimal in this barrel.

Shoot 1 and clean for 5 rounds,
Shoot 3 shots clean for 5 groups
Shoot 5 shots clean for 5 groups
Shoot 1 and clean to treat barrel with Microlon for 5 rounds.
Click to expand...

the key things here are custom barrel vs factory
the aspect of minimizing copper fouling, this depends on the type of custom barrel... some customs if properly broken in will definitely foul less...
the question then comes full circle what's properly broken in and that answer comes from your own testing... boomer has a routine that works for him... from his own testing...

and he appears to be doing it in 20 rounds... which is nice... there's some customs which will work after shooting less than ten rounds through them...

there is no single method to cover them all, what works on one might not work as well on another and the technique you use also affects the results...

I believe the first five rounds are the most critical in deciphering what a barrel might do because of that I'm inclined to shoot and clean five times monitoring the progress... the first couple you'd clean more than possibly the last three... you may have to repeat it twice... but not always... more than this and I'm thinking damn I've chosen the wrong barrel...

you build a personal history if you pay attention to this stuff or are inclined to... There's no way in the world I'm not monitoring exactly what's going with a barrel for the first 50 shots... after that many the pattern is pretty well set or established... and it's a real ##### to change it!

You can run amock on the net checking each barrel manufacturers cleaning regime and what they recommend. You can talk to shooters who shoot a particular manufacturers custom barrel and then you can do it yourself with a bit of common sense and monitor the process your self.

I don't think you'll get two shooters agreeing even on the chemicals they use, whether they use bronze or nylon brushes... if anything you should be using a good bore guide during the process... with a single piece rod and the proper jag and patch which allows you to get a feel for how tight or loose a barrel is... you'd be surprised at the number of people who don't pay attention to these small details they are key to knowing what's going on... more so a bore scope would let you know just how clean your processes is... some don't clean enough and others seriously overclean... a bore scope will shed a lot of light in this area but the good ones are serious money worth about two custom barrels... which involves more decisions... but that's what shooting is all about decision-making...
 
This is right from Krieger Barrels for breaking in their Hand Lapped barrels

Stainless
5 one-shot cycles
1 three-shot cycle
1 five-shot cycle

Chrome moly
5 - 25 - one-shot cycles
2 - three-shot cycles
1 - five-shot cycle

Here is their take on Barrel Break-In
 
Here is an excellent counter-argument copied and pasted off Sniper dot com:

......I've talked with 4 metallurgist and 3 barrel manufactures (Rock Creek, Hart and Shilen), on the subject. From a scientific point of view, they all said and agreed to pretty much the same thing.

First, barrel break-in processes keep them in business. This shoot and clean, shoot and clean every round or few rounds break-in process only damages your brand new match barrel. Think of a car engine for a moment. Why do we use oil in the engine? To prevent metal-to-metal contact and reduce friction between two metal surfaces. Your barrel is no different from the engine. Mike Rock at Rock Creek barrels gave me the most detailed explanations on barrels and ballistics. Mike has his degree in metallurgy; he was also the chief ballistics engineer for the Army for many years at the Aberdeen Proving grounds. Stan Rivenbark was one of the top ballistic engineers for Raytheon before he retired in the 70's and also has a degree in metallurgy. I also talked with two local metallurgists here in North TX. I confirmed my findings with each person to see if they agreed or disagreed. Conclusion, they all agreed with each other's assessments.

When Mike worked at Aberdeen proving grounds, the Army used high speed bore videos with mirrors, thermal imaging and computers to analyze any and everything that happens when the firing pin hits the primer and the round goes off. When the primer ignites there is enough pressure to move the bullet forward into the lands. The bullet then stops. As the primer ignites the powder, more pressure builds moving the bullet forward where it can stop again. Once there is enough pressure from the round going off, the bullet is moved down out the barrel. All of this happens in nanoseconds (billionths of a second). Your bullet starts and stops at least twice and sometimes three times before it leaves the barrel. This is fact.

If you clean every round or every few rounds during your barrel break-in process or clean your rifle so well after shooting that you take it down to the bare metal, you've created a metal-to-metal contact surface for the next time you shoot the gun. So what's the problem with this you ask? Just like your car engine, metal-to-metal contact will sheer away layers of metal from each surface. So if your bullet is starting and stopping two or three times as it leaves the barrel, that's two or three places for metal-to-metal contact to happen as well as the rest of your bore. The use of JB's and Flitz can and will take you down to metal-to-metal contact. For all intents and purposes, JB's and Flitz are not the most ideal products for cleaning your rifle.

According to Mike Rock, and the other barrel manufactures agreed, all you need to avoid this metal-to-metal contact is a good burnish in the barrel."
 
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