I understand that the standard Lee Metford barrel contour was heavier than the No.1 Mk.III barrel - however, was it the same or very similar to the No.4 Enfield contour? The reason for asking concerns the rebuilding of a couple Lee Speeds, both of which need new barrels. I've a mint SMLE barrel, but wonder whether the contour is too thin.
Barrel Contour - Lee Metford/"Long Tom" v. No.4 Mk.1 Enfield?
- Thread starter nailcreek
- Start date
You are correct.
The barrel profile of the Number 4 was specified as being the same as the Long Lee Enfield rifles, which were identical to the Leee Metfords/Lee Speeds/Number 4.
Number 4 barrel will screw up but it will index 180 degrees out..... and your SMLE barrel will breech-up properly but it is too light.
Shop time!!
Hope this helps.
The barrel profile of the Number 4 was specified as being the same as the Long Lee Enfield rifles, which were identical to the Leee Metfords/Lee Speeds/Number 4.
Number 4 barrel will screw up but it will index 180 degrees out..... and your SMLE barrel will breech-up properly but it is too light.
Shop time!!
Hope this helps.
SMELLIE is bang on. Smle barrel wil screw right on and work. However, it is thinner profile to that of a long tom.
A No.4 barrel is identical in profile, but shorter. However, the MLE and SMLE breech up on the end of the barrel in a socket in the receiver ring. whereas the No.4 breeches up on the front of the receiver ring and the barrel shoulder. Not only but also, the No.4 threads are indexed 180 degrees out from the SMLE. So if you screwed a No.4 barrel into your long lee receiver, the extractor slot would be on the wrong side of the chamber.
You will need a lathe and a chamber reamer. I have done it by setting the shoulder back half a thread pitch and recutting the chamber. The only tell tale sign that the barrel isnt period to the gun will be the differemt nocks form. But if you have access to a lathe and a donor barrel, there is a trick to fix that too.
For a gunsmith who does barrels it is a straight forward job. It is tricky to machine things to fit up right and took me many fit ups.
A No.4 barrel is identical in profile, but shorter. However, the MLE and SMLE breech up on the end of the barrel in a socket in the receiver ring. whereas the No.4 breeches up on the front of the receiver ring and the barrel shoulder. Not only but also, the No.4 threads are indexed 180 degrees out from the SMLE. So if you screwed a No.4 barrel into your long lee receiver, the extractor slot would be on the wrong side of the chamber.
You will need a lathe and a chamber reamer. I have done it by setting the shoulder back half a thread pitch and recutting the chamber. The only tell tale sign that the barrel isnt period to the gun will be the differemt nocks form. But if you have access to a lathe and a donor barrel, there is a trick to fix that too.
For a gunsmith who does barrels it is a straight forward job. It is tricky to machine things to fit up right and took me many fit ups.
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From what I've read, that while the TPI is the same (14), the degree is different. Copied from another thread I started ...
"Greetings from Australia.
Regarding fitting of No 4 barrels to SMLEs.......
The thread pitch is the same: 14TPI.
The thread FORM is NOT THE SAME!!!
No4 tenon threads have essentially a Whitworth form; 55deg flank angle.
SMLEs and earlier models have an "Enfield Special" thread that has a form angle of 49deg, 40min.
EVERY thread on a SMLE is an "Enfield Special". The closest to a "standard" is the stock bolt in the butt. This is "more-or-less" 7/16 Whitworth (ish)
No4s have the same stock bolt thread, (more-or-less). HOWEVER, MOST of the threads on a No4 are BA of one sort or another. The exceptions are the front triggerguard screw and striker/cocking piece, which are threaded 1/4" BSF."
"Greetings from Australia.
Regarding fitting of No 4 barrels to SMLEs.......
The thread pitch is the same: 14TPI.
The thread FORM is NOT THE SAME!!!
No4 tenon threads have essentially a Whitworth form; 55deg flank angle.
SMLEs and earlier models have an "Enfield Special" thread that has a form angle of 49deg, 40min.
EVERY thread on a SMLE is an "Enfield Special". The closest to a "standard" is the stock bolt in the butt. This is "more-or-less" 7/16 Whitworth (ish)
No4s have the same stock bolt thread, (more-or-less). HOWEVER, MOST of the threads on a No4 are BA of one sort or another. The exceptions are the front triggerguard screw and striker/cocking piece, which are threaded 1/4" BSF."
I recently had a Lee Enfield MkI action that had a No4 barrel screwed into it, and it came up 180° out as Smellie said.
The fact is that while not identical the threads are close enough in dimensions to be perfectly functional IMO. The threads do their job if they hold the rear face of the barrel and preferably the shoulder as well, tight up against the corresponding faces in the receiver.
Nailcreek, I saw the remains of a Lee Speed type sporter yesterday that had a SMLE profile barrel as an original fitting apparently, so there's the predictable exception to my earlier comment in your other thread.
The fact is that while not identical the threads are close enough in dimensions to be perfectly functional IMO. The threads do their job if they hold the rear face of the barrel and preferably the shoulder as well, tight up against the corresponding faces in the receiver.
Nailcreek, I saw the remains of a Lee Speed type sporter yesterday that had a SMLE profile barrel as an original fitting apparently, so there's the predictable exception to my earlier comment in your other thread.
RRCo, thanks ... no disagreement. I suspect you've forgotten more about these topics than I'll ever know!
Interesting information about the Sporter. The two I picked up, were both used in Africa and later brought to the states. The first was a BSA that had been re-barreled somewhere in the distant past with a stock SMLE barrel, along with the standard issue SMLE sights. Equipped with the standard pipe-wrench boogering, that barrel was so shot out and worn that it keyholed at 50 yards. At least the receiver wasn't messed up. The second, a "real" Lee Speed, also had a standard SMLE barrel, which was bad enough to preclude a trip to the range. Both are candidates for re-barreling.
So far, the plan is to screw on a mint SMLE blank onto the BSA, restock with modified Fajen/Boyds wood and use a NECG express sight in back and perhaps a standard front sight. The "real" Lee Speed will be barreled with a new barrel correctly contoured, the express/ladder sight it came with and perhaps a front sight with the folding hood. For wood, I'm likely going to get a set from G. Cusens in Australia, to make it into a pretty good copy of a No.2 Pattern.
I'm still working on that 1916 SMLE sporter, finally getting the metal bits over to the gunsmith this afternoon. The wood work is looking pretty good so far. New draws put in, and the ebony tip glued.
Interesting information about the Sporter. The two I picked up, were both used in Africa and later brought to the states. The first was a BSA that had been re-barreled somewhere in the distant past with a stock SMLE barrel, along with the standard issue SMLE sights. Equipped with the standard pipe-wrench boogering, that barrel was so shot out and worn that it keyholed at 50 yards. At least the receiver wasn't messed up. The second, a "real" Lee Speed, also had a standard SMLE barrel, which was bad enough to preclude a trip to the range. Both are candidates for re-barreling.
So far, the plan is to screw on a mint SMLE blank onto the BSA, restock with modified Fajen/Boyds wood and use a NECG express sight in back and perhaps a standard front sight. The "real" Lee Speed will be barreled with a new barrel correctly contoured, the express/ladder sight it came with and perhaps a front sight with the folding hood. For wood, I'm likely going to get a set from G. Cusens in Australia, to make it into a pretty good copy of a No.2 Pattern.
I'm still working on that 1916 SMLE sporter, finally getting the metal bits over to the gunsmith this afternoon. The wood work is looking pretty good so far. New draws put in, and the ebony tip glued.
If you really enjoy working on these old girls, a lathe would be a good idea, so you can shape and polish barrels, thread shanks etc. If you have those resources you can source a barrel with suitable bore diameter and rifling and then profile and re-chamber as you wish. Makes tasks like reshaping firing pins and refacing bolt heads easy too. Depending on how deep you want to get into this, you could try to duplicate the original blue. I think examples of the recipes are found in Angier's book on gun finishing and bluing. Time spent with emery sticks will be well spent, polishing and flattening surfaces before bluing. Avoid the buffing wheels like the plague; they ruin the profiles.
Some 215gr. round nose soft-tips and you'll be ready anything. Looking forward to seeing some more photos as they progress.
Some 215gr. round nose soft-tips and you'll be ready anything. Looking forward to seeing some more photos as they progress.
